Four top hybrid MPGs

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bwilson4web, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I wasn't sure where this belongs . . . so Fred's for now:
    Column 1
    0 [th]low[th]avg[th]high[th]count[th]model[tr][td]51[td]56.2[td]63[td]3[td]Honda Insight[tr][td]41[td]52.0[td]78[td]25[td]Prius c[tr][td]44[td]51.2[td]64[td]20[td]Prius hatchback[tr][td]44[td]48.2[td]53[td]6[td]Honda Civic
    Source: Fuel Economy

    So three Honda Insights are doing great but it will take a larger sample set to find the trend. The 2011 Honda Insights did not do so well.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Maybe Other Cars?

    I think we really do need a general hybrid discussion area.
     
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  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    "Other Cars" works too. Coming up with or fitting into a taxology is not a trivial problem especially at 3:40 AM. What happened was I'd been reading "News" and wondered about the current MPG ranking of hybrids. So I used my favorite source, www.fueleconomy.gov and was a little surprised that the Hondas were still in the top four hybrids. If one went by recent postings in "News" the Honda hybrids aren't getting much press.

    Now the small sample set for the Honda Insight, the old 'Prius Killer', shows the problem of too few samples:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4 Column 5
    0 [th]low[th]avg[th]high[th]count[th]model[tr][td]51[td]56.2[td]63[td]3[td]Honda Insight 2012 CVT[tr][td]42[td]48.9[td]60[td]19[td]Honda Insight 2010 AV-S7[tr][td]35[td]46.1[td]65[td]25[td]Honda Insight 2010 CVT[tr][td]40[td]45.3[td]50[td]3[td]Honda Insight 2011 AV-S7
    Source: Fuel Economy

    Here the relative small sample sizes inverts the order of which transmission is more efficient in the Honda Insight. Actually, the sample sets are too small to make a hard call but the AV-S7 looks about 5% better. However, from a statistical point of view, the are all but identical. Outlier removal can improve the metric but with only three samples, taking out the lowests and highest would reduce the metric to a single sample. In my world, I prefer get five samples before outlier removal and average the middle three.

    What I was hoping to see were any of the Fords. But apparently they are still too few or low to show in the top four as far as user reported mileage. We are seeing in "News" a lot of single unit, reports but no details needed to understand the vehicle and they are too few in the user reported sample set I like to use to show any clues. But I get the impression they may be more serious competition for the Hondas.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The Insight II was only available with a CVT. The way Honda listed the specs on their site look like 2 different transmissions are available, but the second listing is just reporting the ratios of the CVT. On top of that, the CVT is probably programed to act like a step transmission on some settings. So we have confusion on the EPA site.

    I've noticed multiple listings of drivetrains for other cars at fueleconomy.gov that are repeats. Some of it could be manufacturer caused confusion like the Insight. Some is because there are multiple ways to describe it under the EPA's definitions. Some is just a seperate listing for Carb cars which have the same drivetrain but slightly different emission controls. Check the EPA ratings. If they're the same, it's likely the same hardware.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Thanks! I didn't realize that was the case. The description in Wiki makes it clear even if it sound perverse.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    What, making a CVT behave like a traditional transmission? Yeah, why bother with a CVT then?

    Honda has some technical reasons for it, but it is mostly because people are funny and don't like different. Seen plenty of complaints about the Smart auto manual, but most them boil down to it not being just like a step transmission.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was thinking about this later and realized the Honda cone-and-belt system is more adaptable to simulating stepped transmission and needs a separate clutch. In contrast, our Prius CVT is clutchless and covers a much larger gear ratio range.

    Bob Wilson
     
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