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Featured From Ars Technica today: Owning an electric car really does save money, Consumer Reports finds

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Prim.e.xample, Oct 9, 2020.

  1. Prim.e.xample

    Prim.e.xample Member

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  2. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    And the longer you keep the car, the more you save.

    Like so many things in life, it takes that initial investment.

    So the interesting question is if you took the dollar amount between the BEV and the ICE and invested it over a certain time frame, would you come out ahead?

    By the time I'd break even, I'd be bored with the car and ready to buy the new shiny thing.

    For a medium length car owner, the Hybrid or Plug-in Hybrid is the best.
     
  3. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    So what is a medium length car owner...about 5 foot 7 inches to 5 foot 10 inches?
     
    orenji, Merkey, Raytheeagle and 4 others like this.
  4. Prim.e.xample

    Prim.e.xample Member

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    With ownership averaging 10-15 years, you definitely could do that. With a 10% annual return on a $10,000 investment between a $25,000 Camry LE and $35,000 Tesla 3 (IF you could get one for that actual price), then after 10 years you could have your car's initial value and then some.
     
  5. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Why prolong that fantasy?

    What does it look like when you compare that against the Camry + $21k invested vs. buying an easier-to-source $46k EV?

    Or what about somebody who is already saving 30-50% on maintenance costs through DIY?

    I can't say they're putting lipstick on a pig- this is genuinely better than that. But the savings and value proposition is definitely on the thin side for now.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Tesla Model 3 vs. Toyota Camry — 5 Year Cost of Ownership Comparisons

    This is very close to what you asked.
    Assumptions and methodology are fully listed out so you can make adjustments if you like.
    The electricity price may be low, or the gas high. In our case the electricity is a lot cheaper and the gas is a bit cheaper (at the moment).
     
  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Well, as you said, the assumption $3.10/gal for gas and $0.13/kWh for electricity already favors BEV. I am sure if the assumption is $2.00/gal and $0.21/kWh as they have been over three years in our area, the number would not be as favorable for M3 as the article portrays. As long as the electricity rate is higher than gas cost as in most of the NE region, BEV will always cost more to operate than PHEV or regular Hybrid with super-efficient gas mileage. Now, if comparing to a regular gas engine car with gas mileage less than 20mpg, then maybe, even at our high electricity cost, BEV may have an edge. But that would be comparing an apple to an orange.

    As for the maintenance cost, I don't know how M3 service is provided. But if the car has to be taken to a shop to be serviced, then not having any servicing shop within 250 miles radius has to be taken into the cost consideration for my case. At least Toyota cars can be serviced at any local garage and the nearest dealer is within 50 miles and 2 years of maintenance is free by Toyota Care.
     
    #8 Salamander_King, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Near as i can tell, that whole thing is swinging from the hope that the Model 3 will retain very high resale value as it ages. I recognize that this is within the realm of possibility, but that's a heck of a big bet in this economy, and I believe the estimation presented as a "result" there is overly optimistic on this point.

    Personally, I assume that Tesla (and others) will inevitably come out with something better which will induce significant depreciation on the existing fleet, the overall economy won't get better for a while, and there's a long history of all used car prices dropping to a similar 'floor' regardless of MSRP.

    The high fuel prices and low electric prices listed cheat it further, and it doesn't look like insurance was factored in at all- more expensive cars usually mean higher premiums.

    @Salamander_King raises an excellent point re: service. Who pays for 500 miles roundtrip towing for service on an 8.3 year old car? (number influenced by @Trollbait's post above)

    Also just an aside... that guy is really paying 3.75% on an auto loan? for 5 years?
    Personally if I can't get it under 2.5% AND ≤48 months I declare it unaffordable and move on.
     
    #9 Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    nor does it portray our 8kW solar roof (fully amortized for several years now - nor does it portray other's rooftop solar). That makes our comparison of $2.00/gal versus $0.00/kWh pretty tempting for cost analysis and a slam dunk for EV's - as you can't put your excess electrons in a gas burner.

    Carry that out further ... folks in our portrayal don't have to earn an extra 20% - 35% (state/fed income tax) just to have money left over, so we can toss it down the gas tank hole. The savings just keep adding up.
    ;)
    .
     
    #10 hill, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, I am planning to put 10kW solar on our roof soon, which should reduce our high electric rate from the utility. But in our climate, the break-even time is close to 15 years. There are no free electrons for us.
     
  12. Prim.e.xample

    Prim.e.xample Member

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    Yes, there are a lot of assumptions made in these scenarios. I would not put a heavy emphasis on depreciation if you are keeping your car that long, even if it’s only eight years. Driven conservatively at around 10,000 miles a year, you’ll have an 80,000+ mile vehicle to try to trade/sell. now if you would be selling it in a couple of years...
     
    #12 Prim.e.xample, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The cars of the Model 3's performance levels in its market segment aren't getting under 20mpg, but many do use premium gas, and they all cost a lot more than a Camry.
     
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  14. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    If you buy a CPO Mirai with 15k miles of free fuel, it’s a no brainer. Nothing will cost less.
     
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Only if there is any hydrogen fuel station near you... Big IF.;)
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Some cities in our area started charging $2/hour (previously, the majority, and I mean 95%, were free) for L2. People started complaining lol. Someone said it was a good thing because certain electric cars were hogging the stations (most had 4 hour limits) and suggested they were better off using superchargers (in terms of their time and allowing other EVs to use the L2). Someone chimed in that it costs $20 to supercharge. Last time I checked, $20 of premium gas didn’t get you very far with our prices (almost $4/gal for 91).

    Less than half a tank.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    too many variables. who buys a bev to save money? the same person who buys a prius to save money :p
     
  18. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Plenty in OC and LA.
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    But... but this time it's different, right?

    ....Right?

    :ROFLMAO:
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    But how many in Maine for @Salamander_King to use?
    How Mirai have been sold to the interior of California?
     
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