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Full green SOC assist - of my favorite newfound "states"

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by mikewithaprius, Feb 19, 2011.

  1. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    I found a wonderful way to improve mpg on one trip. As some of you may have read in the past, I have a couple bridges, one of which in particular has a killer ascent, but then you have to come to a dead stop and lose all momentum at the bottom with a toll booth (Rhode Island EZ Pass is not just drive straight through - they actually have the yellow bars that lift when you pay. I've seen an ambulance come to a full stop at this bridge, it's ridiculous). After that you accelerate to about 40-50 mph to continue on, with general uphill, so that with normal state of charge you'll be getting in the 30 mpgs even once you get going.

    I've found that if I maintain the brake depressed most of the way down the backside, but without too much actual slowing, that I can usually, but not always, get full green bars just before the toll. The acceleration after from 5 mph or so is all electric, even when I try to push harder to get the ICE going. The ICE then eventually starts, and I accelerate to 45 mph getting around 50 mpg. I can easily accelerate more gently up in the 70s, 80s, etc. 50 mpg is the floor! Once I'm up to speed, I've come across this "cruising" state of battery assist a few times. This particular picture was taken at 44 mph. The arrows are not flashing back and forth at all - the image as you see it stays put on the screen for quite a bit of time unless I adjust the pedal.

    Thought I would share. It brings up my mileage significantly on the trip to have a couple miles of 80 or 99.9+ (whatever it ends up being) compared to the 30s or 40s I'd get otherwise.
     

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  2. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yeah you don't need to be running in full electric mode to make use of the charge. As you've seen even with the ICE running it can still use the battery and reduce the gas needed.
     
  3. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

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    Way to go. :)
     
  4. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    When the SOC is at 70% or above, the Prius will "burn off" the charge by using around 5kW worth of electric power to supplement the ICE. If you are going slow enough and stay below 5kW worth of demand, you will not light up the ICE at all and can "EV mode" it until your SOC drops.

    Even after the ICE lights, you will find light throttle application still reports over 99.9mpg. This is also what happens if you have a plug-in and a larger pack. With my PHEV, in hybrid mode I find that I can keep this up for over a hundred miles, and my average stays over 99.9mpg as long as all my trips stay under that. Of course in EV mode I can use zero fuel for about 40 miles in the city or about half that on the highway. (if I'm careful)
     
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  5. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    I actually try to get the ICE to light, since, just guessing intuitively, it would be better to prolong the high state of charge rather than use everything on full out driving in EV. Ja?

    Oh, and I can't see the energy used yet, but maybe after I get my hands on your new device :D Would be happy to test one for you. You should sell through Amazon, I've been saving up gift certificates just for a ScanGauge, but now looks like I'll redirect that money elsewhere...
     
  6. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    Hmm, I would think that at low speeds it's probably more efficient to use electric, rather than incur the extra friction of spinning up the ICE. The car will light the ICE when the SOC drops.

    What you want to avoid in the Prius is "double conversion", or basically sending anything into the battery at all as silly as it sounds. Since if you aren't plugging in, all power ultimately comes from the ICE. Since you had to get to the top of the hill either way, and you have to stop at the bottom, any power you can put into the battery is otherwise "free". On a normal situation with a hill, you are much better off just using the inertia than regen braking and re-using the power as electric boost. Of course there is likely a break-over point with speed, as going faster eats up more energy as wind drag.

    I'll let everyone know when Priuscan is ready!
     
  7. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yeah definitely. Though even at lower speeds I still try to accelerate on the ICE, but then as soon as I'm up to speed I back off the pedal and let it run fully electric for a while.
     
  8. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    pEEf and uart, thanks for the input, to update you...

    I drove this route this morning, and only got 7 out of 8 green bars at the bottom (not sure if it matters, but was 19°F, car did not feel snappy and energetic like it can). Over that particular terrain, it seems better to "save" the charge a little and mix it with the ICE like in the pic above. The reason is that shortly after I can get the full charge, there's a couple more hills to climb. If I use all EV before that and the charge runs down, I then climb those hills at 20-30 mpg instant (this morning in cold saw 18 mpg, ugh!). If I spread it out in the past I know I've seen 40-50 at the least.

    Again, not sure if any way to calculate at all, but it's my impression the car likes working in that green state as long as it can on that particular road.
     
  9. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    You'd need overall MPG. Reset the average MPG right at the bottom when you stop at the booth, and continue using more EV, record the final MPG after you get to a good repeatable fixed point near the end. Then, on the next day duplicate the same scenario, reset at the same place, then try to "hold" the green longer as you describe, read at the same point. Compare the 2 MPG numbers... Then post! =)
     
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  10. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    Taken a long time to collect even the smallest samples (and once I just forgot to reset the mpgs when I had full green...doh!). I'll do more soon.

    Description of three points:

    A. about 2 miles after initial acceleration from about 5 mph with full green bars. Unfortunate hill just before this point cuts down on 100+ mpg mileage significantly.
    B. about 2.5 miles in, after climbing a bridge
    C. about 3.0 miles in, after descending most of the bridge

    Pure EV, then engine as needed once the green wore off:

    Point A: 87.3 mpg
    Point B: 67.3 mpg
    Point C: 76.7 mpg

    ICE assist most of the time:

    Point A: 75.6 mpg
    Point B: 59.8 mpg
    Point C: about 67 mpg

    Notes:

    Pure EV, depending on traffic, may not always be possible with the slow acceleration.

    Preliminarily, pure EV is clearly better in numbers, but when the ICE assist was done today there were extremely heavy headwinds (and sidewinds...), whereas I remember the pure EV day being clear and sunny, no winds of note, so I'll keep testing to get a better average for both ways.
     
  11. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    The Zen of Prius:

    1. Avoid inefficient ICE use (less than ~ 15 kw)
    2. Avoid energy conversion

    When 1 and 2 are in conflict, avoid 1.
     
  12. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    Thanks, Sagebrush, very concise way to think of it. I've heard of this magic 15 kw point, I don't know if I can wait for the Priuscan, may just crack for a Scangauge. I can approximate 15 kw using instant mpg as a percentage of current speed from what I've read about SHM, but otherwise I have no precise idea where that is.

    Oh, and you've inspired me to a music lesson.

    The Zen of Classical Period Trills

    1. Avoid starting on principal note
    2. Avoid directional interference

    When 1 and 2 are in conflict, avoid 1. :)
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Nice, Mike :)

    In our G2 Prius the fuel pedal is linear with power, so 15 kw is about a 1/4 depression.

    The Zen double negative was unintended. The snippet should be understood to say that ICE inefficiency is worse than conversion losses.
     
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  14. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi Mike. Do your tests end with the same SOC in each case. If the second case ends with a higher SOC than the first then it's not a totally fair comparison. Interesting data though. :)
     
  15. mikewithaprius

    mikewithaprius New Member

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    Hey uart,

    They both ended with six blue bars. I'm guessing that within the sixth bar, that is, from the "bottom" of that sixth bar to the "top", there could be a range of charge that I can't account for, but visually they ended the same.