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Full on intake, egr, throttle cleaning

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Wtfdustinwtf, Nov 30, 2023.

  1. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    Hello everyone! I have a 2014 prius 160k miles. I have been watching lots of YouTube videos and have a large supply of tools at my house and am reasonably comfortable working on vehicles (especially prii!) My goal is to take apart my intake manifold to clean and soak over night to make ot squeaky clean. I plan on cleaning out the throttle body, egr pipe and cooler. I am ordering new manifold gasket new PCV valve and will also be replacing the engine coolant (might as well get as much done as possible) I think I'm going to skip the oil collection can for now as I am a bit confused on it and can't figure out if it is $160 $60 or $35 for one that will work for 3rd gen.

    I have a few questions, the first is since I will start by draining radiator and reservoir and eventually disconnecting much of the coolant lines when I finnaly have everything back together I can just add coolant until it settle, put prius in maintenence mode until everything kicks on, turn heat on full blast and this will guarantee all air is purged and the entire system is optimal level? I'm also open to any suggestions on what else I should do since I will have everything open up anyways. Last, I am doing this because of obvious oil consumption clogged system don't want a blown head gasket problems I've also read about some BG brand products that can help restore the entire system to pre oil consumption level but the link I found is obsolete so I don't know if this product is real of all 3 bottles (different labels on each) are needed if it still is a viable option. Any and all help would be much appreciated as I will have all my supplies by Monday and will have the prius down for a couple of days.

    I'll add that I have taken apart my old 2010 prius before in several occasion so I have some comfort with this but I also am very limited on mechanical knowledge (very good at youtube and repair manual work though) I also have a brother in law I live with who is addicted to buying tools so my house has everything except an engine hoist at this time. I just really would like to hear any tips or feed back as I am doing this by rote learning rather than any actual complete understanding of engines and systems.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    See attached Repair Manual excerpt for engine coolant change (attached inverter coolant change as well, just in case). It suggests to open the spigot on the block, drain that as well. That I wouldn't bother with: in practice I found maybe a quarter cup drain from there, at most, and it's very hard to reach.

    Having a '10, it likely has the vent at top of engine coolant circuit, white capped gizmo at junction of hoses above EGR components. I'd leave that open while refilling, till coolant starts flowing out (you can attach tube to it to avoid spill if you want).

    The instruction recommends to fill to the B line on reservoir, cap it securely, and run car in maintenance mode (info attached) till fans come on. When doing ours, I ran it in maintenance mode for about 30 minutes, fan never came on, I finally shut it down, and that worked out.

    See first two links in my signature. On a phone turn it landscape to see signature.

    160K is a little late in the day to start in on this. Ideally I would clean the EGR every 50K. 160K is definitely into head gasket failure territory; I would keep that in mind.

    Are you consuming oil? If so, at what rate?

    My 2 cents: the head gaskets are blowing due to EGR components hopelessly clogged with carbon. This happens even with an engine without runaway oil consumption, likely starting when the cars roll out of the factory. It's a lousy EGR design, largely rectified with gen 4. Then gen 4's started blowing head gaskets due to coolant loss, due to coolant leakage in the Exhaust Heat Recovery system.

    Where is Samsara btw? I see one in Spain, another in India.
     
    #2 Mendel Leisk, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
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  3. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    Thank you for the reply and information. I've read through lots of the replies you've given to people in this forum and i turely do appreciate how much information you freely give to help people! I cant give a high five (fist bump?) over the internet but just know I do appreciate your help to me and everyone. To anwser your question, Samsara is more of an action (something we do) rather than a place. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra physically I'm in the south east of the USA. When I made this account some time ago (had issues with my first prius) I had a very direct enthusiasm for spirituality so I guess it seamed fitting to say I am located in samsara.
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    For a responders geographic location is of more interest, things like where you might be buying supplies, if there's Toyota dealerships, whatever.
     
  5. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    Ah yes, now I understand where your coming from. Do you happen to know anything about the BG products? Such as BG 44K Fuel System Cleaner https://a.co/d/9qZVhhT ? I've read some things about using 3 of their products specificly for oil consumption but the link I found doesn't exist as a product (set of 3 different canister) nor does it state what each individual BG product is.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    Not sure; they may loosen up piston rings. What's your rate of oil consumption?
     
  7. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    I don't have a quantified answer at this time. There is some amount of consumption but I am trying to be ahead of the game due to how high my milage is. I put off doing this maintenence for a while and it recently hit me hard when I noticed a slight drop in MPG. I've read horror stories of people with much less miles than me. I mostly have some strong feelings around all of this so I deicded to just hit everything head on which is why I made this thread to get any aditional advice or tips. If I had to take a guess I'd say everything is within a reasonable limit but after I complete this cleaning maintenence project and oil change (will be doing an oil change in the next few weeks after) I plan on actually measuring the consumption.
     
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  8. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    It looks like they rebranded. I was able to find this Smilyeez Listing for BG Hybrid Performance Kit PN KE07-N1T Includes Hybrid EPR PN PE05, MOA PN PE06, and 44K PN PF01 with Pocket Screwdriver https://a.co/d/doicwJo I will just wait and try to look more into it. I figured I'd post this though incase one sees this thread and has any experience using this.
     
  9. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    I can't imagine how fuel injector cleaner would unstick piston rings. Stranger things have happened but that seems like an outlandish thing to expect. Usually it only cleans deposits in the fuel injectors themselves, since it doesn't really spend any time in the combustion chamber before it is exploding. And even the cleaning of the fuel injectors is extremely suspect since you dilute it so much with gasoline.

    FWIW, when you take your car in for a fuel system cleaning at the dealer, they literally hook the fuel rail up to a can of this (or whatever fuel system cleaner they have on the shelf) and idle the motor exclusively on fuel system cleaner until the can is empty. So even putting this in a tank of gas on E will still be diluting it 10-20 parts gas to one part cleaner.
     
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  10. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    It appears that the 3 part product has a can that goes into the oil. The first link I posted was just something I could find from that brand.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    I’d focus on the EGR and intake first, and just monitor oil consumption.
     
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  12. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    It sounds like you have some experience with fuel injectors. May I ask I'm your opinion do they actually get clogged? In my old prius I took out the injectors to investigate them and the port/hole was so incredibly small I figured they either would work perfect or be totally occluded. Is it possible for something so tiny to be partially blocked?
     
  13. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    Yes, I feel like that would be my best bet at this point in time.
     
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  14. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    I have seen shops that use a fancy ultrasonic cleaner to remove deposits on 20 year old injectors. Those shops also have a flow bench to measure how much improvement the cleaning nets in terms of flow rate and evenness from one injector to the next. We are talking in the ballpark of 5% difference from one to the next though, not significant stuff.

    Remember that gasoline is a really great solvent. So whatever buildup you might see in the fuel system can only be something #1 already in the gas tank, and #2 not soluble in gas. That is why you don't normally see fuel injector problems even in old cars.

    And the problem you see, if you did experience buildup, it would not be because of a restriction; remember that the car normally runs in an O2 feedback control loop. If the O2 sensors detect a lean or a rich condition, the ECU will adjust for it and add or subtract fuel as necessary to hit stoich. The only danger is extreme unevenness from one cylinder to the next. If all four clog up but do it evenly, the ECU can take care of it. But if one clogs up then that cylinder will run lean. Either way it probably won't cause an MPG issue.

    Putting fuel system cleaners in the tank, in my opinion, are hogwash. Though, that opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. That all make any sense? :)
     
    #14 bdc101, Dec 1, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2023
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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    An example of before/after test results from such an on-the-bench injector service can be seen in this post. That was in a car that was running quite poorly before, and ran well after. You can see in those results that there was an overall reduction of flow that exceeded the ±20% the car's ECM can trim for, and also a 30+% relative flow difference between the best and worst injector, leading to very rough running.

    So, injectors can get bad like that. They can also, in other cars, go for years and years and years and pass such a test with flying colors. The exercise is probably worthwhile chiefly when there is some reason for suspecting the injectors might be bad.
     
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  16. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    Yes, but there was some kind of extenuating circumstances for that car - you don't see cars with 165k miles having those kinds of problems virtually ever. If it was some kind of buildup that gradually increased for every car, you'd see cars like this more often, especially high mileage cars. I assume there was bad gas involved or some kind of failure of the integrity of the fuel tank (perhaps rust). Also as you noted, it was not fixed by multiple rounds of fuel system cleaner.
     
  17. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    That last part did seem to be one of the takeaways from the experience: the in-tank cleaners did not seem to be effective on injectors with actual problems (though on-the-bench cleaning restored them like new). That was also a conclusion of the article linked in that linked post.

    It's possible the in-tank cleaners have some effect in keeping good injectors from getting bad in the first place; I don't know. I'm hoping the additive package in "top tier" fuel is generally enough to do that job.

    It's clear that not every car inevitably develops injector issues, but that some do sometimes. I'm not really qualified to pronounce on why those did when the rest didn't.
     
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  18. Wtfdustinwtf

    Wtfdustinwtf Junior Member

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    @Mendel Leisk so I went ahead and drained both inverter and engine coolant. It won't be till tomorrow before I add coolant back in but my question is that for the engine coolant your suppose to ready the prius in maintenence mode thus turning off all electric motor parts. However to properly fill the inverter coolant you have to have the pirus in ready mode so as to allow it to cycle. Which should I do first? After getting the windshield wiper assembly out I decided I might as well replace the spark plugs too as I'm sure they could use, and most of the work to get there is done! Thank you for all your help
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

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    Geez, I also did both those, at the same time, well log shows same day. I believe I drained and filled the engine first. Then started on the inverter.

    @ChapmanF might have some ideas: scenario is BOTH coolant circuits are drained, how to proceed.
     
  20. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The effect of maintenance mode is to keep the engine running so you can get it fully warmed up without having it turn off when it normally would.

    Maintenance mode doesn't change anything about the inverter cooling system, so that pump will circulate inverter coolant just as well in maintenance mode as out.

    Make sure you've got a good initial fill in both systems before going to READY at all. The engine cooling system will then pretty much take care of itself; if you started at the B line and capped the reservoir as instructed, the extra coolant should trade places with the trapped air and be down to FULL after you have warmed it all up and then let it cool.

    The inverter coolant level will drop while the pump is circulating it and the air escapes, and you'll have to keep an eye on that to add more if needed before it gets too low and sucks air (go back to start, do not collect $200).

    If you had a scan tool with active tests, you wouldn't go to READY for the inverter coolant; you'd just go to IG ON and use the scan tool to command the inverter pump on. That has the advantage that the inverter itself isn't trying to operate, as it would be in READY mode.
     
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