Gas *OR* Electric

multi displays in upgrade packages only??

hmmm i didnt know that. im not extremely surprised. i still look at the big 3's foray into the hybrid arena as being half hearted and pathetic.

here is an excerpt from an article about the SuperCar program. the article was written in 2002 and some of the info is obviously dated.

DaimlerChrysler, for example, announced in 1999 that it would produce a hybrid Dodge Durango. But those plans "have been postponed and postponed indefinitely," company spokesman Max Gates says. The carmaker decided that the plan simply wouldn’t prove profitable.

GM says it will put in showrooms by mid-2004 hybrid versions of the Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra, full-size pickup trucks that get 16 miles per gallon in city traffic and 21 on the highway. But these hybrids will show little improvement over the conventional models: GM predicts the new trucks will get just 2 miles more per gallon in the city and no more on the highway.

Ford promises to produce late next year a hybrid version of its Escape, the company’s smallest SUV. The company estimates the mileage will be in the high 30s for city driving and about 25 on the highway. (Hybrids often get higher mileage in city traffic because that is when the electric motor is doing most of the work.)

While U.S. automakers are planning to produce hybrids in the coming years, Japanese carmakers Toyota and Honda are selling theirs right now.

The most celebrated is the four-door Toyota Prius, which gets 52 m.p.g. in the city and 45 on the highway. The company reports selling 15,500 in the United States last year and expects that number to rise to 20,000 this year.


so you can see it was never the big 3's intention for the hybrid to be a success. so putting out deceptive advertising doesnt really surprise me. the quality of the advertising closely matches the quality of the hybrids being pawned off on the american public.

 

I get the Ford "adds" on KPLU. The thing I don't like is the "suggestion" that the Ford is the only compleat hybrid. I tolerated it until Bill Fords recent announcement about the HOV lanes in California. Not in it's self an important issue and I am conflicted on the subject in general but Ford wadding in really made me mad.

 

I imagine they're trying to emphasize that it's a full hybrid, like the Prius, and not a mild hybrid, like the Hondas.

However, the typical car buyer will never understand how something like the PSD works. Witness a recent post over on PriusOnline where some guy was complaining that the Prius should have a switch to cut out the electrical part of the system for highway driving to prevent transmission slippage!!! Witness also the general belief that heavier means safer.

They will look at the EPA mileage figures, and news reports claiming those figures to be off; they will look at style and convenience and size. As gas prices rise, more folks will buy fuel-efficient cars, and that means hybrids. I really don't think that misinformation about how the different hybrid systems work will affect the market for them.

 

In all honesty, when I think of Ford, i don't think of cars or fuel efficiency. I think of those Big SUVS (Expedition) with it's 10 miles per gallon.
When I think of Dodge, I think of RAM, and their big 2500 HEMI V8s (Gas thirsty mothers)

Now when I think of Toyota, I think of smaller more efficient vehicles, Prius, Echo, Camery, even their "street legal 4-wheeler", the RAV4.

It's just a shame that these multi-billion dollar companies can't figure out that with the huge prices in gas lately and more environment aware people, that MPG Efficiency and lower emmisions are starting to become a factor when people purchase a vehicle.
I suppose it's also the market, I know way to many people that love 500 more horsepower then they'll ever need or use, or capabilities they'll NEVER use (Can anyone say "Hummer"?)

 

hdrygas, i have heard the same radio spots and that should be "first full sized hybrids"

as it is, Toyota is the ONLY true hybrid on the road today.

 

yes i think the marketing ploy is being used to take advantage of the publicized shortages to perpetuate the myth that they will be hard to come by.

 

It's not a question of "figuring out" the market. They are in business to make money, not to save the world. Their interest is in manipulating the market to sell the more-profitable SUV's and trucks.

I beg to differ. The Hondas are true hybrids. They combine a gas engine with an electric motor and receive motive power from both, and they use regen to recover energy during braking. They are, unquestionably, outstanding cars, and true hybrids.

We Prius drivers consider the Toyota to be a better hybrid, for its more elegant design, greater efficiency, and ability to run on electric only. But it's not the only hybrid.

 

I agree. Honda deserves credit for their design. It is a full, compleat hybrid what ever those words mean. I also agree that the Toyota is a better design as it is a parallel / series design. It is the bridge to the next generation. Did anyone catch the Market Place piece on the Honda solar powered hydrogen fuel cell car. Very nice for California but can you do it in Seattle? I would guess if we cut down all of our trees moved into high rises we would get enough area to power a few of them in the winter. I guess we could go to Ellensburg and get some wind power.

 

i based my comment on an article i read several months ago that states that the Prius is the only true hybrid as the honda cannot run on EV only making it not a true hybrid.

 

I would say that the Honda isn't a "full hybrid" -- that, for the reasons you state, the Civic Hybrid is a "mild hybrid".

The "full hybrid" and "mild hybrid" terms are used in Toyota hybrid literature, Scientific American articles, and elsewhere; I've been sticking to them, as it seems to be a good standard for the here and now.

But I very much agree with Daniel that the Civic Hybrid (and the Insight, and the Ford Escape) are hybrids, i.e., hybrid cars. The GM Silverado, however...

 

well i agree that any vehicle that has two methods of propulsion should be considered a hybrid. the fact that Toyota distinguishes itself because they can run in EV mode only i think is the result of the public's perception of hybrids more than anything else. as we all know, the combination of the EV and the ICE working together is where we get our greatest benefit in higher mpgs.

 

Hybrid means the combining of two species; in this case, two species of propulsion. It is not necessary for the car to be capable of running on either one alone to be a full and true hybrid. The Hondas are parallel hybrids, but they are full and true parallel hybrids. I disagree with any article writer who insists that a parallel hybrid is not "full" or "true."

I was turned off by the Honda IMA necause I was so intrigued by Toyota's series/parallel HSD.

But they are two, different, legitimate implementations of full hybrid technologies.

BTW, I have a solar-powered hydrogen fuel-cell car. It's big enough that it could carry a mouse easily. Half an hour of charging the hydrogen tank under a strong table lamp will allow it to run on a very smooth surface for five minutes or so. It struggles pretty hard on a very low-pile carpet. It's a cool toy that aptly demonstrates the inadequacy of fuel-cell propulsion.

 

Did you build it yourself? Way cool toy.

 

It was a kit. I don't think this was the place I got it from, but it's the same car. The wheels are too small and not fastened on well, and the whole thing's a bit flimsey. But it's still fun.

 

that does sound cool. i have a radio with a hand crank for electricity, it works just like the one on Gilligan's Island TV show

 

How do you get the mouse to hang onto his/her little SE/SS transmitter?

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: