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Gen II Prius Individual Battery Module Replacement

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ryousideways, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Ultanium

    Ultanium Junior Member

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    Updated video.

     
  2. naijo7

    naijo7 Junior Member

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    I was hoping the hybrid battery last a bit longer than 117K, I been wondering if more frequent driving is better for the hybrid battery.
     
  3. Texas Hybrid Batteries

    Texas Hybrid Batteries Senior Member

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    If it makes you feel any better we put a new hybrid battery in a 2005 last week that had 58,000 miles on it. Toyota wouldn't help due to the age of the car. Yes driving it more is better for keeping the modules balanced and extending the life of the pack.
     
  4. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    just done an 05 with 100 miles /160k its not always about miles, sometimes its age sometimes its climate, driving style! too many factors


    Tommy why only 2a discharge? where's your fans man? those ReaKtors of yours aren't even awake yet ;) you have to pound on those old modules show em whos the boss (y)
     
    Ultanium likes this.
  5. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    It would be best to watch the voltage under load while driving.
    It is not the computer.

    The window just needs to be reset. roll it up and down a 2 times. Stopping at the top and bottom for 3 seconds each time, holding the button the whole time
     
    Robert Holt likes this.
  6. naijo7

    naijo7 Junior Member

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    Well, it is my first Prius, it was nice before the problem, but now I feel manual-TDI is an better alternative, I live by the ocean and don't like to worry about this issue.
     
  7. naijo7

    naijo7 Junior Member

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    I feel now I really understand why some people don't want to deal with hybrid cars, and I can't believe many car repair shops don't want to get into this repair business. From what I gathered, if you want to get the work done right, it is either go to the dealership or by yourself.
     
  8. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    All cars suffer problems as they age, to be fair any battery that lasts 10 years has done a pretty good job.. Prius are relatively trouble free otherwise

    TDI will have its own problems, couple grand for an injector pump
     
  9. Texas Hybrid Batteries

    Texas Hybrid Batteries Senior Member

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    Prior to becoming a die hard Prius guy I had a 2011 Jetta TDI with a manual trans. At 103,000 miles the turbo blew up and cost me over $2000 to get fixed. My 2006 Prius just rolled over 290,000 miles and has needed nothing except a hybrid battery. IMHO you'll spend a lot more than the cost of a hybrid battery to keep that "Clean Diesel" going. They are fun to drive though.:)

    Matt
     
  10. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    1. it needs to be tested after 10+ hours of rest and without any load applied, i.e., pop your hood before you go to bed, lift the hood and measure voltage on the jumper terminals when you get up in the morning. ~12.65V is fully charged. If it's much below that, you may have a weak 12V. Based on your answer to 2 and your pending answer for the new 4 and 5 below, I suspect your HV battery is significantly out of balance.
    2. .05 may be a very significant amount particularly if it's a light load. 0.3V open circuit is a HUGE difference.. NiMH operates in a VERY narrow range, especially in the SoC restricted range of the car.
    3. Pretty explicit right here: Gen2 Prius: Custom PIDs for Torque (Android App) with formulas | PriusChat
    4. What was the bulb wattage?
    5. Have you grid charged/discharged/charged since replacing the modules?

    I recommend you dedicate all your efforts to getting the Torque Pro PIDs setup as that will tell you almost everything Techstream can. Better yet, get MiniVCI, but I think we already went around in circles on that one.
     
    Bobakanoosh likes this.
  11. Rhunter

    Rhunter Junior Member

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    Greetings,

    Apologies if my questions have already been addressed, but I've looked through about half of the posts in this thread and didn't find the answers I was looking for.

    I've got a 2005 Prius battery I'm working on, and tested all the cells, with and without load. I need 3 cells. I've read that the ebay cells are unreliable. I ask then, where can I obtain some quality cells?

    I have a Hitec X4 80 running from a modified 480W Thermaltake ATX PSU which was purchased in roughly 2004. I just hooked it up today. I'm brand new to these chargers, so I need to make sure I'm understanding everything correctly.

    My PSU's 12V rail is only rated 18A, so I can only use each channel of the X4 @ 4.5A (total of 18A), correct? When I first started the charger, I didn't understand how to start the cycle charging function, so I started all the channels in regular charge mode. I would expect at least 3 of the channels to be able to charge if it were to not deliver the rated amperage. Well, only one actually charged, the other 3 gave me "input vol err", which I understand to be an insufficient amount of voltage coming from the PSU. Strangely enough, the channel that did start charging kept going, even after the error on the other 3 channels, and the PSU didn't power off or show any symptoms. What am I missing here?

    I figured out how to get cycle charging working, so it's now discharging all 4 cells, and I dropped the charge amperage on each channel to 4A. I don't know if it's going to give me the error again, but I suspect it will.

    I do have an almost brand new 12V car battery that isn't being used, but would rather use the PSU for a few reasons: I don't have a trickle charger, and I've put quite a bit of time into modding the PSU. Am I going to be limited to one channel using the PSU, or is there something I've overlooked?

    BTW, I did use all the yellow wires together to obtain the maximum amperage from the PSU (and black GND wires as well). However, I did not put a dummy load on the +5V rail bc I've read that's unnecessary for newer ATX spec'd PSUs. It hasn't shut down, but would a dummy load perhaps be the reason I can't pull the rated amperage from the 12V rail?

    Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any suggestions.
     
  12. naijo7

    naijo7 Junior Member

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    Ohhhhh, I don't want to find out....
     
  13. Bobakanoosh

    Bobakanoosh Junior Member

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    I will test the voltage on the 12V manually with my voltmeter tomorrow morning. The headlight method tells me it is at 11.9V resting.
    I fully reconditioned the pack after replacing the 2 new cells about a week ago, so it's not horribly out of balance (if at all). The bulb I used was from an old Saab. It was a 55W 12V halogen bulb similar to the one HA uses in their load tester.
    I'll download the PID's tonight, and my miniVCI is actually in the mail. Just playing the waiting game now (and if I can figure it out before it gets here, that just saves a little bit of time)
    Thank you!
     
  14. S Keith

    S Keith Senior Member

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    This is a power problem, not a current problem. Additionally, I have found that I'm lucky to get 70% of the rated current from an ATX power supply.

    The PSU voltage drops when current is applied. I don't know what it is, but let's use 11V. Let's say 18A is actually 13A (72%) sustained.

    So, the PSU is capable of 11*13 = 143W

    143W/4 = 35.8W per channel.

    35.8W/9V = 3.972A per channel (4A)

    Take into consideration that none of this is 100% efficient, and the 4A/channel is a theoretical maximum.

    Additionally, the charger likely has an input voltage cut-off setting. I would set it to 10V is possible. If it is set higher, and the power supply voltage dips below that, undesirable things happen.

    The best solution is to return the Hitec and get a single Reaktor 300W, a car battery and a car battery charger.
     
  15. Rhunter

    Rhunter Junior Member

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    Thanks for the response, Keith.

    Unfortunately, I'm stuck with the X4 bc I bought it on eBay and have clipped one of the cable sets to crimp on a ring terminal. It's actually an X4 80, so it has 80W per channel. I wish I knew about the Reaktor prior to buying the X4.

    I do have a battery and a charger. The charger is an old Sears heavy duty 40 amp floor unit, pic attached. Would it be safe to use this charger while simultaneously running the X4?
     

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  16. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    That's one fine Sears, might be too aggressive I'm really not sure . but you dont need to go that way! just change the low voltage cut-off setting in hitec menus from 12v down to 10v and keep using the ATX, input voltage is dipping low your not running out of current!.
     
  17. Rhunter

    Rhunter Junior Member

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    It was already set to 10V. I've got a second PSU that I can modify, is it possible to run the 2 supplies together to power the X4?

    Perhaps I can use all 4 channels if I lower the charge amperage?
     
  18. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    that's really bizarre a 480w supply although not 100% efficient should have more than enough headroom to run all 4 channels @ 4A. Any chance you have only selected 10V the one channel that's working and the other 3 channels are still set to 12v
     
  19. Rhunter

    Rhunter Junior Member

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    I just checked, and all channels were set to 10V. I tested the voltage drop, and sure enough, it's dips below 10V. I adjusted the amperage, and it can handle 2A per channel.

    I have another PSU that's rated 218 Watts, the 12V rail rated at 14A. Is it even worth my time to mod this one?

    I'm beginning to think that I may be better off using the 12V car battery to charge 4 modules, then charging the car battery on the Sears HD to prepare for the next 4 cells.
     
  20. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

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    Never seen the 12v line on an atx supply dip much under 11v myself even at full load, must be pretty crap! are you getting full 12v unloaded?

    2A per channel should be ok, I'm not familiar with x4 so I cant say how reliable deltaV detection is at low voltage, that's the only thing to consider

    maybe worth trying the 218w supply, its hard to know what you really have without knowing full spec, watts alone can be a bum steer it depends on a few other factors like duty cycle, one might be only 25% duty while others 50% and some even 100% .. too many factors, personally I like supplies out of retired servers they have pretty good 12v line grunt

    Not sure about your sears but it looks pretty angry, I don't know enough about it to make recommendations!