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Gen3 Enginer 8kWh Kit First full tank..

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by banshee08, Feb 6, 2010.

  1. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Well just wanted to report the results of my first full uninterrupted tank with the 8kWh Kit and 2 converters. And after replacing 16 bad cells and moving to the 4 cell buddy system. Not to mention I did a thorough balance at the bottom before putting the kit together. Here is the results of my last three fill ups.

    8kWh 2 converters: Filled up 2010-02-05
    1012.2 Miles
    9.502 gallons (87 octane)
    106.5 MPG
    34 MPH AVG.

    NO KIT INSTALLED (Was balancing CELLS for a whole week) Filled up 2010-01-20
    535.5 Miles
    8.753 gallons (87 octane)
    61.1 MPG
    37 MPH AVG.

    4kWh 1 converter: Filled up 2010-01-02
    718.1 Miles
    9.915 gallons (87 octane)
    72.4 MPG
    34 MPH AVG.

    The last fill up was a result of 2 daily charges of about 6kWh and a combined 70 mile commute to and from work. Lucky for me that I can charge at work else I would not be able to run 2 converters all the time. Running 2 converters has allowed me to run in EV mode most of the drive home at about 40~45mph constantly with occasional red light here and there but mostly on a slight downhill. The nightly commute results in a 190~200mpg according to my SGII. I must admit I hypermile quite a bit and I hardly ever come to a full stop if I can help it. I usually don't go below 6 bars of battery on the MFD and my average speeds are about 36mph daily.

    On my morning commute I usually take the Interstate and that results in about 85~90mpg depending on the traffic and speed of the other drivers. I tend to drive with traffic while staying with the big rigs in the right lanes. Running two converters on the Interstate does make quite a bit of difference in MPG about 25% more FE as I can see it in real time.

    Hope this helps some on the decision process. I have had quite a few members PM me about my kit and my results. Just wanted to make this information search-able. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions. Now I just need to find someone to help me mount my box properly at the end of the this tank.
     
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  2. JonnyD

    JonnyD Junior Member

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    thx for the great report. The second converter provides a significant boost to the overall MPG.

    What is the SoC your 8kW pack after the 70 miles trip?
     
  3. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I'll PM you and we can talk about ideas.
     
  4. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    JonnyD,

    I am not sure what it would be after 70 miles, it really depends on how long it takes me to get to 70 miles. I know I would not be able to drive more than 1.25 hours with two converters on without hitting about 20% SOC. I charge twice a day, once overnight and during the day at work. I am pretty sure I am at about 40% SOC after my morning commute and 25% SOC after my commute home. My nightly charge consumes about 7.5kWh and my charge at work uses about 6.0kWh according to my killawatt meter. Assuming a 80% charger efficiency, then I am putting about 6kWh overnight and 4.8kWh during the day which is 75% SOC and 60% SOC respectively.

    I really advise against computing the Enginer system capacity in terms of Miles driven. It should be computed with how much driving time to be more accurate. I usually consider that I only have 1 hours of driving time with 2 converters on constantly and about 2 hours with only one converter. This is not a electric car but rather the Enginer kit is putting out a constant 10 Amps per converter regardless if the OEM HV battery needs it or not. In an electric car the DC/AC motor would pull from the batteries when needed, it would not be a constant load but rather there will be times where the motor need 400AMPs and times when 0Amps are needed.

    Hope that helps,

    Chan
     
  5. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    I would actually like to hire someone to mount the box for me. I just don't have the right drill bit and lift to get under the car easily. I also don't trust myself to put holes in my trunk without messing up something. :boom: Hence why I don't have any metal drill bits, just wood bits.
     
  6. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Chan,
    Yes, I agree with your concept that the Enginer kit is not an Electric Car but rather the Enginer kit is recharging the Prius HV Battery as you go.

    However, You comment
    is not correct. The converter drops the 10amp current down as the Prius HV batteries approach their 80% upper limit. If you have not changed the factory settings on the converter, it will not push current into the Prius HV Battery when the Prius does not need it.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  7. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Wow!!
    You have a very low averaged MPH.
     
  8. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    I notice that even when I have full bars on the OEM battery. My scanguage II is still showing a 20AMP charge going into system and eventually the engine will kick in to burn off the extra 20Amps. I have not change any settings in my converters yet but I wonder how does the converters know when the OEM battery is full? Is it checking the voltage on the OEM battery from the terminal???
     
  9. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    What is the no load output voltage for each of your converters?

    For a 2 converter system I would recomend about 235v on one and about 242 on the other. I have one converter set at 241v and I drop to about 6-7amps at 7 bars and to about 3 amps at 8 bars. I did have the ICE spin when it was at 248v but I have never had the ICE spin to waist energy at 241v.

    The theory is simple, E=IR. As the voltage of the Prius HV battery comes up to the converter output voltage then the DeltaV goes to Zero and so the current drops. The converter has some resistance as does the Prius system so that the drop in current is not all at once.

    Hope this helps,
    Dan
     
  10. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Dan,

    Can you send me instructions to set my voltages for my converter? Just tested no load voltages and they are about 250V each with no load.

    Thanks,

    Chan
     
  11. JonnyD

    JonnyD Junior Member

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    Chan,

    The reason why I asked you the end SOC is because you have your CellLog. From that data you can a good feel of the SOC.

    I'm going with a 4kWh system and hope it can handle my 30 miles commute and sustain no less than 50% SOC.

    Thanx,
    Jonathan
     
  12. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Johnathan,
    Of course Chan will give you his opinion about capacity based on his experience with his 8kwhr kit.

    However for best information on a 4kwhr capacity I would suggest that you may want to check with those that are running 4kwhr systems.

    In the thread
    http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-p...-vehicle-install-in-portland-area-gen2-6.html
    Go down to the post done on January 18th. The attachment shows usage of a 4kwhr system over about 15 days. This would give you good information.

    My guess is that 30 miles per day will use around 75% of the capacity of the 4kwhr system.
    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  13. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    I agree with Dan on this one. When I used the kit as a 4kWh kit, I would get to about 75% DOD or 25% SOC on a 35 mile trip. Do keep in mind that if it only takes you 40 mins to drive 35 miles then your state of charge would be about 40%, I figure I can run the Enginer Pack for about 1 hour before hitting the 75%DOD. Really depends on the Average MPH of your daily commute..
     
  14. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    This is pretty typical I'd say, assuming he is using the standard calculation of total mileage vs. total time elapsed. The average for all vehicle travel in the US (3 Trillion miles/yr) is something like 33mph. You really don't realize what a huge impact stop signs, stop lights, traffic, etc have on your average speed until you start keeping close track. My commute is mostly freeway at 60mph, and yet I usually only average ~30mph by the time I get the mile or so to/from the freeway and to/from work/home.
     
  15. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Both my cars have the same MPH averages. My Altima Hybrid which gets mostly freeway miles get about 37mph also. Pretty typical to me.
     
  16. smonroe123

    smonroe123 New Member

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    Hi guys, my name is Sam. Sam i am. started with 04 prius, traded that in for what i have now - 08. been researching the different expansion packs for possible install. have read thru ALL the past threads on the Enginer packs. i understand that the Enginer converter will limit the amps. i understand that tapping the extra power in so that the OEM ECU does not see the extra pack requires the OEM ECU to be forced to do a SOC recalibration (SOC Drift) of OEM traction battery after the Enginer pack has brought traction battery up to a specific voltage. Just like to check how accurate i am on couple of specifics from what i got from past threads.

    1st, is it accurate to say that when Enginer converter senses that the traction battery has reached 230v, is this the point the converter is supposed to kick over to different output to go from the limit of 10amp max down to 0amp until traction battery reaches 240 or 241volts?

    2nd, i am taking it that at the point of the traction battery being 240 or 241volts is where the SOC drift will occur. am i correct to say that the SOC level at 240 / 241 is approx. 73 / 74%, being that this is supposed to be the approx. % that pushes the HSD to right at the 8 bar level and utilising EV mode only up to 34mph?

    3rd, when the Enginer converter senses voltage drop of traction battery <230v, is it at this point that converter kicks over to a different output allowing full amp draw to traction battery (in this case with 8Kw is 20amps). let's say you have more power available (up to 40amps), should you allow a full 40amps to come in at <230v? or wait until traction battery falls to about 190-195v to slam in 40+ amps?
     
  17. Daox

    Daox Member

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    I don't think the converter senses anything. It has a set voltage output and it just pumps that out period. As the voltage of the OEM pack nears the voltage output of the converter it slows down (less voltage differential means less amps). Thats all there is to it.
     
  18. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Sam,
    Yes, I believe you are pretty close on understanding the concept. I do see SOC recal's at various times. I saw in one thread that a recal will be done a 242v. I believe this is true, But I have seen it at other states of charge also. I have measured the Prius HV battery and discovered that it is all over the place. I am confident that even a 50% SOC with hard regen from braking it can go above 242v and trigger a recal.



    The Enginer spec for the converter output is 240v+/-5v at no load. Mine is set at 241v at no load. I have not checked it with current flowing because that level of voltage is dangerous an I am not well enough trained in high voltages to be manipulating a DVM and a Current meter while the changing the SOC.

    EV mode can be engaged anywhere above 3 bars. Maximum electric motor boost at higher speeds seem to come at the 6-7bar level.

    The Enginer system does not sense anything in the Prius except the voltage level of the Prius HV battery. The Enginer converter is designed to give 10amps and run at the Prius HV battery voltage level. As that voltage gets higher, the current goes to lower levels. This is just like older stile battery chargers. I do expect this is happening between 230v and 240v. I have seen my converter run at 10 amps with 6 bars, 6-7amps at 7 bars, and 3amps just before going to 8 bars and dropping to 0amps just after going to 8 bars. But with the Prius HV battery going drastically up and down all the time this current is also going up and down constantly when the Prius HV battery is at higher SOC conditions.

    In this case you get 10amps per converter. The size of the Enginer Battery pack does not matter. I have one converter and Chan has 2 converters, so a maximum of 10amps per converter.

    Remember that the current going into the converter is close to 6 times the output current. I do not recommend more than 2 converters because of the very high input currents.
    You can set the 2 converters to come in a different levels. and that is what I would generally recommend.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  19. banshee08

    banshee08 Member

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    Just a note to everyone considering or buying a 2 converter system. Make sure to purchase two 100AMP circuit breaker. My breaker seems to be cutting out lately (I think the warm weather is causing more load on the batteries) and I notice that the system is pulling over 100AMP sometimes. I purchased another breaker and will install it soon. Right now Jack Chen advises setting up my 8kWh kit as 2 seperate 4kWh kits in parallel. But connect the converters to each 4kWh kit sepearately but connect the charger in parallel.
     
  20. dan2l

    dan2l 2014 Prius v wagon

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    Hi Chan,
    I would think you would want to Quad Buddy the cells but use the 2 breakers in parallel with one converter on each breaker. Then set the low voltage cutoff on one converter a little high so that when the batteries get low one converter shuts off and you are splitting the current going to the converter that keeps running between all 4 cells. This would be the lowest stress on the cells.

    Just my thoughts.

    Thanks,
    Dan Lander
     
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