Getting ready to do EGR/manifold/throttlebody, etc. cleaning-have lots of questions-long post-sorry

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by H00s13r, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Hello all;
    My wife's 2010 prius yesterday morning started up really bad. Engine knocking and shuttering was aweful and lasted over a minute before it started to get a little better. I know I need to do all the ERG and mainfold removal/cleaning, etc. Up to this point I have put it off. Here is the history of the vehicle.
    Original owners(bought new in July 2010). Current mileage around 160kish miles (don't remember current mileage, but over 160K)
    At 106K I did the following myself using NAB vids and Chrisfix vids
    -changed all spark plugs
    -drain/fill both coolants
    -drain/fill ATF fluid
    -brake fluid flush

    At maybe 120-130k miles (don't remember exactly) I stopped doing 10k oil changes as the car burns a lot of oil and switched to 5K changes, but still have to put around 12-16oz of oil every couple of weeks (I check oil at every gas tank fill-up). I know that this is a major problem with the Gen3's and have just dealt with it. I have also considered switching to a heavier full synthetic oil like 5w 20. Not sure if any of you guys have done this and if it helps at all.

    This morning I have already taken down the following as I was familiar with doing it for the plugs:
    -Removed wipers, wiper motor assembly, the plastic housing, the metal tray underneath and engine cover.

    using NAB videos I started on the removing the throttle body and manifold. I got as far as:
    -Removed the airbox assembly.
    -Removed the ERG pipe (never did that before)It looked almost completely blocked with carbon.
    -loosened the clips to the wiring harness around the manifold.

    So this is where I am at. I haven't continued because I do not have those hose locking clamps to clamp off the hoses to the throttle body. I checked all local stores and auto part stores and nobody has them physically in the store or they don't carry them. So I am going to have to order them off amazon or ebay, etc. Some questions I have are:
    1) Can I continue without the clamps? I thought I read on here that someone just collected the coolant out of each hose with a large Ziploc bag. Will this work of will coolant keep rushing out of the hoses? Can I just drain the coolant reservoirs and refill once this is all done, or is it not worth doing?

    2) Since I will be working on the car between my two jobs it will be sitting in the garage until I have everything done. So in the meantime I took out the original battery from the back of the car. To maintain the battery, can I just put it on a standard 12v trickle charger? I have one that I use for the lawn mower, and now that it is slightly warmer here I could take it off mower battery and put it on prius battery. Or should I just buy a new battery when this is all done? How much are the toyota replacement batteries? I would prefer to go OEM Toyota since I have had bad luck with aftermarket batteries in vehicles (sears, autozone, etc.)

    I figure once I have the manifold and throttle body out, I will also be doing the PCV valve along with the erg cooler, so I will need to order enough clamps to clamp that stuff off too.

    3) What clamps do you guys recommend buying for all of this stuff and how many? Judging from NABs erg cooler and manifold videos, he just uses the black and yellow plastic ones and it looks like about 6 maybe?

    Since I will be tearing all this shit out to clean, etc. I think I should add that oil can catch since I will have easy access to it with this project. I watched NAB's video on it, but I am not crazy about using the hardware store barbed piece like he did. I imagine this was done very early on when these kits first came out, so I am wondering if the kits have gotten better? Is there a kit you guys recommend that doesn't need that hardware store adapter piece?

    Since I will be buying the clamps, are there any other tools that you guys recommend I have or buy?
    I know I will need to get that mini torx tool that NAB used to remove those EGR studs. I don't have anything like that. I will probably also be buying some of the socket wrenches that are built into the round end (not sure how else to describe it.)

    Any other tips/suggestions/advice for tackling all of this? I will take all the experienced advice I can get.

    i guess that is all the questions I have for now. If it turns out I can't continue without the clamps I might just start cleaning the engine compartment while I wait for all the clamps, tools, etc. that I wind up buying to come in. Thanks in advance for your help. Sorry this is such a long post.
     
  2. hotelprisoner

    hotelprisoner Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    93
    78
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Technology
    I’ll address the coolant hose clamps problem you’re facing. It’s much simpler then you think.

    Forget the clamps. Put the car up on safety stands at the front. Find the radiator drain under the car. You can see it through some holes in the underpanel. You can reach the white drain tap handle by reaching up from behind while laying on the floor. I used a plastic coffee can (9” tall, 6” diameter) and maybe 1/4” inner diameter hose and filled the clean coffee container with coolant. That’s enough to get the coolant level below the level of the EGR cooler. Some will still be left in hoses and the cooler itself, maybe a cup worth tops.

    Keep the coolant container warm indoors until you’re ready to replace it (flows better). Then use a coffee filter and wide funnel to filter it back into the reservoir. Do this before reassembling the air intake filter box. Squeeze both rad hoses a bunch to get rid of air pockets. I did this also while the car was in IG-ON and used Techstream to force the coolant pump to run. This might cause codes so be sure you can clear codes. After reassembly, put the car in maintenance mode and let it fully warm up while still nose high on the safety stands. Done and done.

    Alternatively, drain all coolant and replace with new Toyota coolant depending on how close you are to being due to replace it anyway. Same air bleed procedure.


    iPad ?
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Also, there's no reason to pull the coolant hoses off the throttle body, it's just making more work. Those hose have enough play that you can just lift the throttle body off, shift it out of the way. I typically tie it to a harness on the left side of the inverter.

    And clamping off the EGR cooler coolant hoses is a fools mission: you clamp the hoses, pull them off, and all the coolant pours out of the cooler lol.

    I refilled the coolant reservoir (with drained fluid) with the car off and cold, no problems. Also, I don't think you need keep the coolant warm, it flows fine cold. And if you drain into a clean container, no need to filter.

    2010 model year has a coolant bleed bolt atop the EGR cooler: leave that open when you're putting the coolant back, it allows air to vent out as the coolant level rises. For some reason they nixed that vent, in maybe model year 2012? In that case you could leave a topmost coolant hose disconnected while refilling. Obviously close valve (or reconnect hose) once all air is displaced and coolant starts coming out.

    Here's some boiler plate info and references I put together, and some repair manual attachments torque values, etcetera.

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.

    Comment regarding clamping of coolant hose, mentioned and or shown in videos:

    1. When removing the intake manifold for cleaning, you do need to lift the throttle body off the intake manifold. Still, the coolant hoses connected to the throttle body have ample slack, enough that you can leave them connected, and just tie the throttle body to something adjacent, say the inverter wiring harness.

    2. When removing the EGR cooler, removing coolant hoses is necessary, but if you drain 2 liters/quarts from the radiator drain spigot prior (into a clean container), the coolant level in the system will be dropped below the EGR componennts, and you won't spill anything. Just be sure to not tip the cooler when lifting it off (and catch the rear gasket): there are a few tablespoons of coolant trapped at the lower back corner.

    Pour that into your previous drained coolant, and when done pour it back into the reservoir. If you've got the coolant bleed bolt (2010, 2011 model years), leave it open while pouring the coolant back in, till coolant starts coming out. For later model years, leave the topmost coolant hose on EGR disconnected till coolant starts coming out. Also, might help to burp the main radiator hose as you pour the coolant back in.
     
    #3 Mendel Leisk, Apr 27, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2020
    Tim Jones, NutzAboutBolts and ETC(SS) like this.
  4. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Thanks for helping me out. I read through your post. In regards to the clamps, I would like to do it exactly like NAB did , but I guess I can jack up the front of the car temporarily on some stands and drain some of the coolant out. I did the coolant drain and fill at 104K, so I was hoping not to have to do a complete drain and refill again until 200k miles. In regards to the tech stream stuff, I don't have any way to check/clear codes. At this point the car has never thrown any codes, so I never have needed anything to check/clear them.
     
  5. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Thank you as well for taking the time to help me out as well. I will try to address each part of your writeup with some comments and questions I have.
    I see your point about not disconnecting the coolant lines on the throttle body, but I would like to do it exactly like NAB did and completely remove it and give all parts of it a through cleaning. I peaked under the throttle plate (not sure if that is correct terminology) and it had a lot of oil in it like NAB's did. I don't think I could give it a proper and thorough cleaning with it inside the engine compartment still attached to hoses.

    In regards to the clamping off the cooler hoses for the EGR cooler to be a waste of time, If I don't, won't even more coolant come out?
    In regards to the cooler bleed bolt, I never noticed that and didn't use it when I did the coolant drain and fill. I just emptied out as much as possible from drain locations. Then I filled with new coolant, then gently squeezed all hoses to burp them of air. Not sure how do use this part you are describing. I will look on youtube for a video that perhaps shows how to use it.

    In regards to determining where I am at in regards to buildup. Not sure if you caught this in my original post, but I stated I have already removed the EGR pipe from cooler to manifold. It is loaded with carbon. It looks almost completely blocked.

    Thank you for all the links to the NAB videos and other threads. I will be sure to read those threads to get even more information.

    Thank you also for the list of recommended tools. Some of them I have, but some of them I will need to get.

    Continuing down your comments, Again you mention not taking off the throttle body, but I addressed this above why I want to remove it.

    Lastly, for the EGR cooler, you agree that I must remove the coolant hoses and also suggest draining a portion of the coolant to get below the level of the components (2 liters you say). How do I determine that i am below the components? Should I just drain exactly 2 liters?
    Thank you both for your continued help
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    You can give it a thorough cleaning with the coolant lines attached, turn it upside down, whatever. But knock yourself out, lol.

    If you've drained two liters (or quarts) prior to pulling off the EGR cooler hoses, the coolant level has dropped completely below the EGR system, and nothing comes out, from the EGR cooler nor the disconnected hoses. Read the boilerplate text again.
     
  7. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2010
    3,726
    2,349
    0
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I just don’t see any reason to remove the coolant hoses from the throttle body. And if you do, make sure you reconnect them the same way they were connected.

    But Mendel is right, I’ve also done this a few times, and you’re just wasting your time disconnecting the hoses to the throttle body.
     
    Tim Jones likes this.
  8. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Well the way I look at it, if I am going to go through all this trouble to really thoroughly clean everything, I might as well take it out and give it a good cleaning. Not sure what the big deal is as it is just 2 hoses. I think at this point I am just going to do a complete drain of the coolant system for the engine. For the cost of 2 gallons of coolant, I think it will make my life a lot easier than jacking with pinching pliars/clamps. besides, most reviews I read of them on amazon, most say they are junk, break, etc.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  9. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Couple of questions that weren't addressed in my original post. can I trickle charge the battery with a trickle charger?

    What ratcheting wrench do you guys recommend? The reviews on the ones on amazon are spotty-many say they are garbage, they break. Looking for a req. for a quality tool.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    What can I say, lol.

    Yeah I usually have a smart charger hooked up when the car's in the garage. Especially if it's not in your way, and car's going to be out of commission for a few days.

    Do you mean ratcheting box wrench (not socket wrench)? I got a Tekton with flex head, for dealing with the nuts/bolts at back of cooler. I've got a few other Tekton items, seem good quality.
     
  11. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Thanks for confirming I can trickle charge it. I took battery out of car, so I can easily plug it in by an outlet in the garage.

    Yes sir. That ratching box wrench where it has the built in little ratchet inside the round of box end. I will look for the Tekton flex head model. Thanks for confirming. With sears gone, I can no longer buy any craftsman tools. They have always been my go to for decent hand tools for the money. Now other than the super expensive snap on, not sure what tools to use or buy anymore.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I went with the ratcheting box wrench style that has different size (and ratcheting) at both ends. They do make a style that's ratcheting one end, solid (in the same size) at the other end, but I've already got those so...

    Telescoping magnetic and mechanical grabbers might come in handy too. It's very easy to drop stuff. I jacked up the front end, put it on safety stands and took off the engine underpanel. It does make it more of a reach, working from above, but the flip side is if anything falls you've got an even chance it'll fall right through.

    Keep your fasteners organized as you take them off. I like to set them in order along a window ledge, put masking tape labels underneath on the wall.

    Watch the rear-most egr cooler gasket: it has no retaining clips, easy to drop, and can get hung up in the spaghetti below.
     
    Tim Jones likes this.
  13. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Makes sense to me. Nice to have one on each side. Now onto the oil can catch. Is there a favorite one to use here on PriusChat?
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    My post #3 above has a link to the main OCC thread. Most are going with cheapos (someone should copyright that name...). I kinda went the other way... :whistle:
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
  15. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Well I will check that thread, but I would prefer not to go with a cheap one. If you have one you recommend, unless you did some over the top custom DIY yourself job then I can understand.
     
  16. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Holy crap. That OCC thread is over 90 pages. Is there a particular page that has a link to one that is recommended?
     
  17. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Just got off the phone with my local dealership. Ordered new PCV valve, and 2 gaskets for manifold (the one for around the 4 cylinders and the small ring where the EGR pipe enters the manifold. Just under $25. Coolant is 18$/gallon, so will probably pick up a gallon when the parts come in.
     
  18. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I have to work the next couple of days, but then it will be to jack up front of car, drain the coolant, and then lower and start tearing this stuff out!
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    42,978
    30,754
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The cheapos are mentioned in the first few pages IIRC. I went with Moroso 85474 Air-Oil Separator. When I bought it was around $190 CDN. Seems like they've gone up since, not sure why. They are very nicely machined. There's an O-ring between the two body halves, that you should lube with anti-seize whenever you've opened it up and cleaned it. I learned that the hard way. At least the O-ring is relatively easy to get, if you need to replace. Some info:

    -------------------------------------
    Moroso 84574 Air-Oil Separator O-Ring:
    Oil-Resistant Buna-N
    Dash Number: 038
    (Relube with anti-seize periodically)
    2.614" I.D., .070" thick in Buna-N
    (66.40 mm I.D., 1.78 mm thick)
    -------------------------------------

    Steel mesh biscuit replacement:

    -------------------------------------
    Steel mesh biscuit part no: 85472059
    (only available by direct order from Moroso, $5 apiece)
    -------------------------------------

    Your call on the coolant drain, but it REALLY isn't necessary. Just complicates the job.
     
  20. H00s13r

    H00s13r Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2016
    61
    21
    0
    Location:
    US
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Wow-that is a little spendy. Was hoping for around $50 for a decent kit with all the parts/hoses, etc.
     
    Raytheeagle likes this.
Loading...