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Global cyclones

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by tochatihu, Jul 19, 2015.

  1. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Hurricanes, y'know? The big twirly things that batter susceptible coasts with wind, rain, and tidal surges. Both mojo and I have previously sent you to

    WeatherBELL Models | Premium Weather Maps

    He because the North Atlantic has been quiet in recent years, and me because globally, there is no trend.

    Got that? no global trend. As air and sea have been warming for 4+ decades (data elsewhere), no big bump in these things. Recent individual storms have laid waste to some places, but that is just the luck of the draw. Cyclones (seem to) have no ability to target high-value spots.

    I mention this for two reasons, There is no short-term trend. The North Atlantic (apparently of most concern at PC) has been quiet, and if we get big El Nino that will continue. Yay!

    Mostly, I want to say that Maue is doing good work, and if you have spare change, send it to him. Second I wish to suggest that if global warming gets bad in near future, it seems unlikely that hurricanes will be the first biggest thing. See to your crop production and coastlines, maybe some temperature extremes, but let the hurricanes flail away over oceans (as they mostly do).

    One big one could undo Miami, but it will be the luck of the draw, not the energy we have added to the system so far..
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I'm actually more interested in sea level change and Arctic navigation. However, the was an interesting Australian paper: http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v8/n7/full/ngeo2456.html

    The mechanisms that cause changes in precipitation, as well as the resulting storm dynamics, under potential future warming remain debated1, 2, 3. Measured sensitivities of precipitation to temperature variations in the present climate have been used to constrain model predictions4, 5, debate precipitation mechanisms2, 3 and speculate on future changes to precipitation6 and flooding7. Here, we analyse data sets of precipitation measurements at 6-min resolution from 79 locations throughout Australia, covering a broad range of climate zones, along with sub-daily temperature measurements of varying resolution. We investigate the relationship between temporal patterns of precipitation intensity within storm bursts and temperature variations in the present climate by calculating the scaling of the precipitation fractions within each storm burst. We find that in the present climate, a less uniform temporal pattern of precipitation—more intense peak precipitation and weaker precipitation during less intense times—is found at higher temperatures, regardless of the climatic region and season. We suggest invigorating storm dynamics could be associated with the warming temperatures expected over the course of the twenty-first century, which could lead to increases in the magnitude and frequency of short-duration floods.

    So a Texas drought is broken by tropical storm "Bob" that by-passed the Southeast to dump flooding rains in its path. This does not bode well for how the west coast drought might end. China already has seen substantial flooding events and the UK had some interesting ones a couple of years ago.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    A new, large El nino will come? How will cyclones change across all the oceans? Maue is tracking this better than anyone ( I think).

    If things get too frisky, and Maue drops the ball, I will stop asking y'all to send him money.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    The strongest N Pacific typhoon of the season (so far) is crossing Taiwan. It is no match for Haiyan in the Phillipines that some will recall from earlier discussions.

    A half meter of rain and 30 m/s average winds are the highest recorded. Rainfall totals will increase but the wind loading will not (in Taiwan). This island is no stranger to typhoons, and doubtful that this one will be much of a killer. What is interesting about Taiwan forests is, after so much experience with such events, they are just puny things. It's not even worth putting up a fight...

    Anyway, coastal mainland China gets it next which will mostly be rain. Taiwan is a pretty good storm disrupter and thus performs an (unpaid) service to the mainland. Ecosystem services are like that. Almost nobody counts them.

    Anyway, lest you get the impression that hurricanes are a thing of the past, the Pacific Ocean keeps churning along. North Atlantic (as we are often reminded) continues its multi-year vacation.

    Pacific Ocean - the most inappropriately named geographical feature on earth :)
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Typhoon 'soudelor' has history: Typhoon 13W (Soudelor), #26 FINAL - Pacific Storm Tracker - Stripes

    A little early because the storm is still a thing:
    [​IMG]
    I've been able to see the 'footprint' of tropical storm 'Bob' earlier this year in sea surface temperatures. So let's see what is available:

    July 12
    [​IMG]
    That upwelling of cold water north of Australia and east of the Phillipines has been an artifact since the El Nino formed off the west coast of South America stretching 1/3d of the way across the Pacific. Cold surface water moderates storms by limiting the amount of moisture that can be picked up. This is a good sign for a milder typhoon.

    July 19
    [​IMG]

    July 26
    [​IMG]
    At this point, I suspect the typhoon clouds are starting to block sea surface temperature measurements. However, it could be the winds moving warm air over the cold upwelling.

    Aug 2
    [​IMG]
    As the typhoon moves on, it leaves cold water behind and uncovers the original cold water upwelling.

    Best opened in a separate window, fascinating, animated GIF:
    http://weather.unisys.com/archive/sst/sst_anom_loop.gif

    Bob Wilson
     
    #5 bwilson4web, Aug 8, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2015
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    I think the go-to guys (persons) in this area are

    Physical Oceanography Division - NOAA/AOML TCHP

    and lots of plotting options are presented, and one step higher in the file structure.

    Before anything else, may we celebrate that US NOAA is doing this? Nobody else on earth is even trying. Funds available have still not been pinched.

    Typhoon-spawning ocean areas have been flat in the past decade, or down (N Atl). Even though SST and OHC have increased. This is a matter of great interest, because one well-aimed event can cost $100 billions.

    Typhoons are not just sea-surface energy available, they are from precursor strong low pressure 'swirls' and the absence of mid-tropo wind shear. When there is El Nino, N Atl is calmed by the latter two, but see Hugo in 1998. I do not think that climate models of today are fit for this purpose.

    But neither do I think that Miami, etc., are wise to build big in the 'firing line'. More storms will come. Betcha.

    C. Columbus had serious problems with N. Atl. hurricanes, even during what we'd call the Little Ice Age.Weird, eh?
     
  7. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    FWIW, I'd like to say that mesoscale models of Soudelor have been extremely accurate. We are getting more accurate at this, at the 100-hr time scale.
     
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  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Thanks. I'm finding their data is not quite as current as the Unisys. Worse, I don't see any polar sea data. If I work with it, I may find the data eventually but I find their interfaces a little awkward. Some data sites are equally difficult to use.

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    You are polar, I am tropical. Irreconciliable. I think we should call the marriage off :)
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Ionic.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Final @6
    When the eye makes landfall in the mainland coast, half of the 'intake zone' is already over land. This means friction and much reduced water supply. Interesting winds rarely penetrate 50 km inland. Soudelor will make half meter of rain in some areas, 300 km inland.

    You just can't keep a (water driven) cyclone together over land. Tornadoes do better over land. They are driven by air currents, vorticity more or less. Tornadoes from above, hurricanes from below.
     
  12. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Local interested parties know by now that Hilda dissipated before Hawaii. TS Danny in the N Atlantic might give a little something to Puerto Rico, but not very much.