GM to unveil electric car prototype

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]346881[/snapback]</div>

Well, no, because the internal combustion engine is only a generator and is not connected directly to the wheels.

Its more like having an electric pickup truck with a gasoline backup generator in the bed. When the pickup's batteries run down, you crank up the backup generator to charge them up again.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 08:18 AM) [snapback]346881[/snapback]</div>

Electric cars get their energy through a power grid, in most cases from oil or coal fired powerplants. What does it matter where the power source is located. Heck, the closer it is to the batteries the more efficient it will be. My guess is that a gasoline engine that only has to charge batteries and not supply drive torque can be made to emit considerably less pollution than the power plants would emit doing the same job.

Question: Would an electric car be considered an electric car if it used on-board solar or wind power to charge the batteries? Of course! But in each case it would be using an on-board power source for charging. How's that so different than using other types of on-board power?

Question: Which goal alternative that might be used by a car manufacturer would you admire most?

a. Build an electric car.

b. Build a car that yields the highest possible efficiency and, in total, generates the fewest pollutants.

As I see it, an electric car is a car that derives all its drive torque from electric motors. How the batteries get charged is immaterial.

 

This has all happened before... a LONG time ago!

GM actually displayed a series-hybrid EV as far back as 1998, at the Detroit Auto Show.

It was a modified EV1, with the following attributes:

"The series hybrid prototype had a gas turbine engine APU placed in the trunk. A single-stage, single-shaft, recuperated gas turbine unit with a high-speed permanent-magnet AC generator was provided by Williams International; it weighed 220 lb (99.8 kg), measured 20 inches (50.8 cm) in diameter by 22 inches (55.9 cm) long and was running between 100,000 and 140,000 rpm. The turbine could run on multiple fuels, from reformulated gasoline to compressed natural gas. The APU started automatically when the battery charge dropped below 40% and delivered 40 kW of electrical power, enough to achieve speeds up to 80 mph (128.8 km/h) and to return the car's 44 NiMH cells to a 50% charge level.

A fuel tank capacity of 6.5 gallons (24.6 l) and fuel economy of 60 to 100 mpg (3.9 to 2.4 L/100 km) in hybrid mode, depending on the driving conditions, allowed for a highway range of more than 390 miles (627.6 km). The car accelerated to 0-60 mph (96.6 km/h) in 9 seconds."

It seems the really efficient device in the GM stable is the PR department!

(PS Who fancies a quick wager? I reckon whatever they unveil in January will have worse specs than the vehicle they showed in 1998!)

 

Damage control.

 

call it what you want, at least its a move in a positive direction for gm and i applaud that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 12:12 PM) [snapback]346913[/snapback]</div>

Q: What's the difference between a series hybrid and an electric vehicle?

A: An electric vehicle travels 40 miles on battery and then stops dead on the road. A series hybrid travels 40 miles on battery and then generates its own electricity to continue on to it's destination.

(Someone is going to complain about the "40 miles" part. Fine, just put what ever number there you want. It's just a matter of the size of the batteries and doesn't change the statement)

The gasoline generator is there only to extend the range. If you put a generator in the trunk of an electric vehicle, is it no longer an electric vehicle?

Contrast this vehicle with a plugin Prius. You can put as big a battery as you want in a Prius and it will still have to use it's gasoline engine to accelerate and to travel at highway speeds. Therefore, it would be incorrect to call the Prius anything other than a hybrid. The GM vehicle mentioned in the article is an electric vehicle that is capable of charging itself. If you never filled it with gas, then it would function just like any other electric vehicle.

 

a small high efficiency gas engine to provide a base charge for an otherwise plug in hybrid i think is an excellent idea. its an interesting twist that does solve gm's problem with wanting to be known as an innovator which imm is the real reason why they have taken so long to get into the hybrid game. they simply were unwilling to do what ford did by acknowledging that Toyota had the best idea. so they went out and developed their own system and on paper, it sounds good.

didnt read the link because its a register page so dont know particulars but what what i gather, the only thing now is being able to execute. we will see how that goes

 

This sounds very interesting to me. I wonder if they will go back to ac-propulsion for this car?

This is the car I want as my main car. An electric car day-to-day with the possibility to make rare long trips when I need to. It could also be used to prove to the market that EV's are viable cars as most who buy a car with 40 miles EV range will rarley (if ever) need to use the gas engine.

Still, as a prototype it's not very interesting as it provides nothing that hasn't been proven before. Now if it's "manufacturing ready" that would be a different thing.

As I'm sceptical to anything GM I think this is simply a PR ploy. Build a cheap prototype car using spare parts from already botched projects. Tote it as something cool, to qualm the market and show that you don't only have SUV's, then let it rust away in some museum.

Until I can buy one of these things I will highly doubt their real exisitance.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 10 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]346953[/snapback]</div>

try this Hartford Courant link

GM To Present A Modified Electric Car

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveinOlyWA @ Nov 10 2006, 08:43 AM) [snapback]346936[/snapback]</div>

To all interested: "Plug-In Partners is a national grass-roots initiative to demonstrate to automakers that a market for flexible-fuel Plug-In Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEV) exists today".

Watch the very well-done and interesting PHEV Video (bottom of page), it clarifies how PHEVs work and their benefits:

http://pluginpartners.org/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 01:08 PM) [snapback]346965[/snapback]</div>

But that's not the case here. The article quotes 20-30 miles. Would an electric vehicle with a 20 - 30 mile range not be an electric vehicle?

If you never put gasoline in GM's car it would have a 20 - 30 mile range. If you welded on the gas cap, could it be called an electric vehicle given that you could plug it in, charge it up, and drive 20 - 30 miles? If so, then why does giving it a backup generator turn it into something lesser?

A plugin Prius can't function without a gasoline (at least not up hill or at highway speeds). GM's proposed car can function just fine without gasoline, at least for 20 to 30 miles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ken Cooper @ Nov 10 2006, 12:03 PM) [snapback]346906[/snapback]</div>

Actually the incorectness of the "dirty tailpipe" doctrine? That horse has been thoroughly beat to death, on this site and numerous others.

 

GM plug in.

Maybe we can all read this article. At least yahoo news is calling it a plug in hybrid.

"GM, which is trying to recover from a $10.6 billion loss in 2005 and stop a slide in U.S. market share, has been criticized for relying heavily on gas-guzzling sport utility vehicles. This year, it has also drawn sharp criticism for its decision to kill its EV1 electric car program."

"In an interview with Motor Trend published in July, GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said killing the $1 billion EV1 program was his worst decision. He said it did not affect the automaker's profitability, but did hurt its image."

Bwa ha ha ha!

As for GM...who cares what they present as a prototype? If they don't SELL it, who cares? And no...leasing doesn't count. Been there...crushed that.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Nov 10 2006, 01:41 PM) [snapback]346987[/snapback]</div>

Ironically, the first sentence of your quote defines "Electric Vehicle" as including the GM car.

To me, calling it a hybrid just because it has what amounts to a backup generator on it is misleading. To me, a hybrid implies that the other electricity source, such as the ICE or fuel cell, is an integral part of the drive train and that the car couldn't function reasonably without it. A plug-in Prius, if at all similar to the current one, could not accelerate at any reasonable rate, climb a hill, or travel at highway speeds without it's internal combustion engine. Likewise, a fuel cell vehicle couldn't operate without it's fuel cell.

With the car GM describes, you could remove the gasoline generator completely and it would still function as well as an EV car with equivalent sized battery.

If Darrell threw a generator in the back of his RAV-4EV and when he ran out of charge after 60 miles or so, stopped on the side of the road, pulled the generator out on to the street and used it to recharge his battery, would his RAV-4EV now be a hybrid?

If he bolted the generator down in the back of his RAV-4 and vented the exhaust so he didn't have to pull it out of the back, would it now be a hybrid?

If he used a generator that was big enough that he didn't even have to stop the car to recharge the battery after running on battery alone for 60 miles, would it now be a hybrid?

If you feel at this point that it should rightfully be called a hybrid, do you believe he would be deceiving people if he told them he had an electric vehicle even though it would be capable of traveling 60 miles on electricity alone and the generator would only kick in on the rare times that he exceeds 60 miles?

Substitute 60 miles with 20-30 miles, and you have the GM car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Nov 10 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]346998[/snapback]</div>

The same is true for low-volume production. Unless the technology is among their top sellers, how will any difference be made... other than just image boosting?