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Going green = helping economy?

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by cyclopathic, Jun 22, 2011.

  1. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Empire State of Jobs - Newsweek
    Empire State of Jobs



     
  2. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    That sort of thing can't hurt. We should be doing more stuff like that. I'd love to see municipalities ripping out the old incandescent traffic lights and replacing w/LED ones. The typical intersection chews up over a kW just running the lights. That could be cut substantially by replacing the bulbs. Seems like it would put a rather noticeable dent in municipal energy bills.
     
  3. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Making buildings greener is a win/win for energy and the economy.

    I think all our lights have been changed by now. Its definitely a good thing environmentally and for safety. The economy is much more questionable. We used to replace all the traffic lights once a year, which used city labor, and production of bulbs I'm sure provides jobs. Since the led traffic signals are warranted for 5 years and will likely last much longer, and a dead led doesn't present a traffic hazard they won't be replaced until they break. This means no real help for the economy, but we can spend the money on other useful items instead of energy, labor, and light bulbs.
     
  4. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Traffic lights probably not but installing geothermal cooling/heating systems, programmable thermostats, etc in schools/courthouses/public buildings/etc could create jobs and savings. Replacing schoolbuses with hybrid ones, etc

    The economic part needs to be looked at, there are green investments which do not have 30+ years recovery time
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Definitely. All of those things, except possibly the school buses help the economy and the environment. I only removed the school buses because current prices may actually hurt municpalities and their ability to spend the money in more usefull ways. When the price of hybrid school buses comes down that will change.

    I also think cities should replace traffic lights, I just don't think it really adds to jobs and the economy. It does reduce energy use and long term city costs. Here is Austin's reductions with LED lighting, look at slides 27 and 28. The project replacing traffic and crossing signs should be saving 7.2 million kwh a year, and payback is estimated at 2-6 years.


    http://www.ledcity.org/pdfs/Austin LED City Council meeting PP LS and CC.pdf
     
  6. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    Agree as presently140K premium on 70K bus is hard to justify. However that is the price for HEV hybrid (due to battery costs). If you put the Hydraulic hybrid system developed by EPA lab and tested in UPS, dumpster tracks, etc the cost increase will be only 8-20K at most.

    More over every state is different but in our state you can only run school bus for 12 years (with additional 1 year waiver) so buses have to be replaced every year. With prices on gas the additional 10-20K will be recovered within 1-3 years, assuming similar to 60% savings of UPS trucks and 30K annual miles.
     
  7. jamesDaniel

    jamesDaniel New Member

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    Everywhere Go Green techniques is educated but our environment will be saved only when everyone takes step to be eco friendly.
     
  8. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    What does it say if your economy is unsustainable? It says it will eventually collapse. It doesn't matter how good an economy looks right now. Which would you really rather have, an economy with 10% growth rate destined to completely collapse in 10 years, or one with a 0% growth rate which can extend indefinitely?