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Gonzales White House Testimony Offer:

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by MarinJohn, Mar 20, 2007.

  1. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/2...red-prosecutors
    LAURIE KELLMAN

    MJ here. Get this, first: 'White House offers to let Congress interview aides on firings'
    Then, 5 minutes later White House changes mind and retracts first offer and replaces it with: 'White House offers Offers Interview With Rove'

    Either way: Democrats rejected it and vowed to start authorizing subpoenas as soon as Wednesday for the White House aides.

    MJ still here. Why is it I feel violated and taken for a chump with what ever comes out of the White House? Here are some tidbits from the link:

    "Such interviews would be private and conducted without the need for an oath, transcript, subsequent testimony or the subsequent issuance of subpoenas," Fielding said in his letter.

    He said the documents released by the Justice Department "do not reflect that any U.S. attorney was replaced to interfere with a pending or future criminal investigation or for any other improper reason."

    MJ again: read between the lines folks, "documents released by the Justice Department" which means they've cherry picked the documents released so far. More from the link:

    The Senate, meanwhile, voted (94-2 To Cancel Bush Power To Unilaterally Appoint US Attys…), to strip Gonzales of his authority to fill U.S. attorney vacancies without Senate confirmation. Democrats contend the Justice Department and White House purged eight federal prosecutors, some of whom were leading political corruption investigations, after a change in the Patriot Act gave Gonzales the new authority.

    "What happened in this case sends a signal really through intimidation by purge: 'Don't quarrel with us any longer,'" said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-R.I., a former U.S. attorney who spent much of Monday evening paging through 3,000 documents released by the Justice Department.
     
  2. huskers

    huskers Senior Member

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    Bush gave Gonzales his strongest support today. That means he will be gone before the week is over.
     
  3. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(huskers @ Mar 20 2007, 05:58 PM) [snapback]409283[/snapback]</div>
    Strong point. "I know her heart" Harriet Miers, "Heckauva job" Brown, Rumsfeld - a "warm" public endorsement by the W must feel like a cold knife in the back these days. Makes me wish Bush would come out and say something nice about Rove.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  4. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/washingt...amp;_r=1&hp
    By DAVID STOUT

    President Bush and Senate Democrats clashed angrily this afternoon, as the president said he would not allow his key aides to testify under oath about the dismissal of United States attorneys, while the Democrats insisted they would settle for no less.
    “We will not go along with a partisan fishing expedition, Bush Said.

    MJ:????Don't I remember an 8 year fishing expedition not too long ago by the opposition party?

    “Initial response by Democrats, unfortunately, shows some appear more interested in scoring political points than in learning the facts,†Mr. Bush said. “It will be regrettable if they choose to head down the partisan road of issuing subpoenas and demanding show trials...

    MJ: HELLOOOOOO

    But Democratic leaders immediately turned down the offer, [of an informal talk]demanding that President Bush’s aides testify under oath. That set the stage for a major political fight and perhaps a court showdown over the rightful powers of the executive branch and those of a Congress now controlled by Democrats.

    MJ: Are the Dem's finally growing a pair? I say put Bush under oath and find out what questionable role he has been playing.

    Harry Reid of Nevada, the majority leader: “Congress and the American people deserve a straight answer. If Karl Rove plans to tell the truth, he has nothing to fear from being under oath like any other witness.â€

    MJ: Kinda like the 'no innocent person has anything to fear from their phone conversations being randomly monitored' excuse offered by Bushivite apologistas
     
  5. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    NEWS FLASH:
    THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS FIRED ALL 93 U.S. ATTORNEYS!


    Will the outrage never end? :angry:

    Time Magazine article here:
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/...,978161,00.html

    So now lets hear the liberal outrage continue.
    This should be interesting: Will it be outrage or hypocrisy? :rolleyes:
     
  6. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    If I recall what I heard on the radio, even if they decide to take action on what they hear, it's up to the Justice Department to carry out further action.

    Since it's the Justice Department being investigated....

    Uh...
     
  7. Sufferin' Prius Envy

    Sufferin' Prius Envy Platinum Member

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    I'm guessing that's one vote for hypocrisy.
     
  8. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260101,00.html

    WASHINGTON — A House panel authorized subpoenas for White House aides on Wednesday as congressional Democrats and President Bush brace for battle over the extent to which the assistants should respond to scrutiny over the firing of eight former U.S. attorneys.

    The House Judiciary subcommittee on commercial and administrative law on a voice vote approved the panel chairman's authority to compel the president's top aides to testify publicly and under oath about their roles in the firings.

    House Judiciary Committee Chairman Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., is now able to issue the subpoenas should he choose. He may also force the White House, the subpoenaed presidential aides and Department of Justice to turn over documents.

    "We have worked toward voluntary cooperation on this investigation, but we must prepare for the possibility that the Justice Department and the White House will continue to hide the truth," subcommittee chairwoman Linda Sanchez, D-Calif., said before the vote.

    "This Congress respects executive privilege as a safeguard for the internal deliberations on the legitimate creation of policy. However, the White House has begun claiming executive privilege as a blanket excuse against any oversight into potential abuse of power or political misconduct," she added.

    ...But Democrats put out talking points after the president's remarks listing some of the 74 times "in recent history" that they say presidential advisers have testified to Congress, including 47 instances during the Clinton administration when Congress was led by Republicans.
     
  9. daronspicher

    daronspicher Active Member

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    Not that it matters... if they do or if they don't....

    for all the liberals who foamed at the mouth in November... Is this what you want from congress now that you have enough votes to pass a bunch of bills for Dubya to veto...

    Focus on trying to destroy everyone in office and see how high toward the president you can get?

    First off, it was totally predicted before the election. If the demo's win, they'll just spend every waking minute running hearings and inquiries and get nothing done. Secondly, I'm glad they are doing this and being so predictable. After 2 years of this crap, America is going to forget why they voted in all these idiots in 2006 and vote them out in 2008. This could cost the Dems the presidency in 08 and I think that's awesome.
     
  10. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

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    I still don't understand what the big deal is. US District Attorneys are political appointees. They have always been. All the other presidents, at least in recent history, have fired and hired district attorneys based on policy and political reasons.

    And guess what? Federal judges and Supreme Court judges are political appointees too. The difference is that they can't be fired once their hired. And how are these judges hired? The President, based on policy and political reasons nominates people for the open positions. And then, the congress, based on policy and political reasons chooses to reject, confirm, or block the confirmation vote of the judges.
     
  11. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    I heard a quick blurb on AAR this morning. Apparently at the press conference this morning, Tony Snow said that the firings were not approved by Bush, and that he didn't even know about them - that all of this was going on underneath him. So a CNN reporter then asked, then how can Bush exert executive privilege? To which Snow said, that's a good question.

    So, this is third hand but extremely interesting if true!

    EDIT: Here it is - see grey box at the top of this page.
    EDIT: It moved down the page. Look for ‘An intriguing question.’
     
  12. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    18 DAY gap in document dump

    MJ: Like I said in the original post: read between the lines folks, "documents released by the Justice Department" which means they've cherry picked the documents released so far.


    http://www.lies.com/

    In the good old days, dumping 3,000 memos in the laps of your political opponents might have been a good way to buy some time. Your opponents would have had to read through the memos and figure out what they showed, and what was missing, and by the time they’d done all that the immediate crisis would have passed. You would have had a week or more during which you could have been out there in the media, talking to reporters and appearing on the Sunday chat shows, crowing about how you’d been so open and transparent, and the other guys would only have been able to sputter.

    But these days, with folks like the good little muckrakers at Talking Points Memo on the case, it works a little differently. The documents were released late in the day on Monday. By 2:19 a.m. Tuesday, a commenter at TPM had pointed out something very interesting about the document dump: Of the 3,000 memos included, there are none from the 18 days between November 15 and December 4. In other words, during the period when we would have expected some of the most-intense discussion of the December 7 firings, there’s an 18-day gap in the memos.

    D’oh!

    More about this from Joshua Marshall at TPM: Shades of Rose Mary Woods? An 18 day gap?
     
  13. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Mar 21 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]409591[/snapback]</div>
    currently the democratic congress has a LOWER approval rating than President Bush.

    they were supposed to bring a new tone to washington :lol:

    they have done what since they have gained control of the congress?

    a bunch of misfits hounded by their own even more radical leftists/stalinists/defeatists/retreatists - pathetic but very amuzing - look at their presidential timber :lol: a 2 year senator b. hussein obama, a plastic surgery queen who doesnt mind her husband wondering (not that anyone would blame him), and a possible do as i say not as i do tree hugger who is a one time loser already.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Mar 21 2007, 06:03 PM) [snapback]409795[/snapback]</div>
    its not like they fired all the AG's :lol: and they serve at the will of the President, no?

    perhaps its because the dems cant get their act together :lol:
    perhaps its because the dems brought a new tone to washington :lol:

    and look at the dems talking - a little innocent angels :lol:
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn @ Mar, 03:03 PM) [snapback]409795[/snapback]</div>
    It sure doesn't help their credibility. I have a feeling we're going to get to the bottom of it. The house of cards is in collapse!
     
  15. rudiger

    rudiger Active Member

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    Two
    1. If the people that Congress want to subpeona didn't do anything illegal and/or don't have anything to hide, why should they mind testifying under oath before Congress and in public? Isn't that the rationale that the RRW always uses in arguing that the increased surveilance and data gathering powers given to the Justice Dept under the Patriot Act are 'otay'?

    2. Man, does this remind me of the final days of the Nixon administration during the height of the Watergate investigation when Nixon, rather than releasing the tapes, tried to get away with releasing a transcript of what was on the tapes claiming (like Bush) 'executive privilege'. Seeing as Bush is following Nixon's example almost to the letter, one can only hope he meets a similiar fate.
     
  16. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/art...80&apc=9008
    Senate panel OKs subpoenas for key aides

    A Senate panel, following the House's lead, has authorized subpoenas for White House political adviser Karl Rove and other top aides involved in the firing of federal prosecutors.
    "We're authorizing that ability but we're not issuing them," Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said of the subpoenas. "It'll only strengthen our hand in getting to the bottom of this."
    Democrats have rejected Bush's offer – relayed to Capitol Hill on Tuesday by White House counsel Fred Fielding – in large part because there would be no transcript and the testimony would not be public.

    Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., the majority leader, said it would be "outrageous," to allow Rove to testify off the record.

    "Anyone who would take that deal isn't playing with a full deck," Reid said.

    MJ here: Although I have been following this event, I have come to the conclusion it is nothing but political farce. Bush, Cheney, Gonzales and Rove are so dishonest that even compelling them in the courts is useless. They are so slippery there is nothing and no way to compel them legally or otherwise to come clean with their dirty tricks. This goes for firing prosecutors who were hot on the trail of corruption, outing a CIA operative, wasting a huge national surplus, handing non-bid contracts to their war-profiteering friends, or anything else either legally or morally repugnant. These are despicable, powerful and as soon as this term is over, extremely wealthy men who will stop at nothing including murder to line their own pockets. Lots of this wasted money will be funneled from them to purchase water rights for the coming water wars. They are the 21st century robber barons who make the 19th century robber barons look like children at play.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(huskers @ Mar 20 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]409283[/snapback]</div>
    Sheesh ... the more tight lipped they become, the more suspect the whole issue becomes.
     
  18. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/2...red-prosecutors
    Documents Show Gonzales Approved Firings
    LARA JAKES JORDAN

    On March 13, in explaining the firings, Gonzales told reporters he was aware that some of the dismissals were being discussed but was not involved in them.

    "I knew my chief of staff was involved in the process of determining who were the weak performers -- where were the districts around the country where we could do better for the people in that district, and that's what I knew," Gonzales said last week. "But that is in essence what I knew about the process; was not involved in seeing any memos, was not involved in any discussions about what was going on. That's basically what I knew as the attorney general."

    MJ: So heis taking the George bush Senior tact when GBS was involved up to his eyeballs in Iran-Contra. GBS testified he always went to the bathroom when the matter was discussed, thereby preserving his 'plausable deniability'. Too bad documents show othewise for Gonsales...


    WASHINGTON — Attorney General Alberto Gonzales approved plans to fire several U.S. attorneys in an hourlong meeting last fall, according to documents released Friday that indicate he was more involved in the dismissals than he has claimed.
    There, Gonzales signed off on the plan, which was drafted by his chief of staff, Kyle Sampson.
    The five-step plan approved by Gonzales involved notifying Republican home-state senators of the impending dismissals, preparing for potential political upheaval, naming replacements and submitting them to the Senate for confirmation.
    Nonetheless Democrats pounced late Friday.

    "Clearly the attorney general was not telling the whole truth, but what is he trying to hide?" said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

    "If the facts bear out that Attorney General Gonzales knew much more about the plan than he has previously admitted, then he can no longer serve as Attorney General," said Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, who is heading the Senate's investigation into the firings.

    Added House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers:

    "This puts the Attorney General front and center in these matters, contrary to information that had previously been provided to the public and Congress."

    Earlier Friday, a staunch White House ally, Sen. John Cornyn, summoned White House counsel Fred Fielding to Capitol Hill and told him he wanted "no surprises."

    "I told him, 'Everything you can release, please release.


    MJ: ...and 'who' decides what 'can' be released???
     
  19. MarinJohn

    MarinJohn Senior Member

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    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FIR...EMPLATE=DEFAULT
    GOP Support for Attorney General Erodes
    By LARA JAKES JORDAN

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Republican support for Attorney General Alberto Gonzales eroded Sunday as three key senators sharply questioned his truthfulness and a Democrat joined the list of lawmakers who want him to resign over the firing of eight federal prosecutors.

    To Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., Gonzales "does have a credibility problem. ... We govern with one currency, and that's trust. And that trust is all important. And when you lose or debase that currency, then you can't govern. And I think he's going to have some difficulties."

    Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said Gonzales has been "wounded" by the firings. `He has said some things that just don't add up," said Graham, who is on the Senate Judiciary Committee.
     
  20. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

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    Lets see, the score is:
    Clinton 93
    Bush 8
    While I agree that Mr. Bush is a complete embarassment, why not apply the same standards of conduct and rules of ingagement to all political leaders. Standards, performance and honestly matter, not party.