Goodbye Prius Family

Discussion in 'Prius c Main Forum' started by dellrio, Jun 14, 2013.

  1. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2011
    2,171
    657
    23
    Location:
    Maine
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    From above:
    Volt:
    Electric miles: 9,120 Miles/Year @ 3.15c / Mile = $287.28
    Gas Miles: 15,880 Miles/Year @ 9.5c / Mile = $1,508.60
    Total: $1795.88 / Year
    Prius:
    Gas Miles: 25,000 Miles/Year @ 7.826c / Mile = $1,956.50 / Year

    Savings = $160.62 / Year.
    Payback time = 12.4 Years.

    Anyone think he is going to be keeping it that long? :)

    [all the usual caveats apply, of course]
     
  2. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    I'd be interested to see if the OP doesn't end up doing better than 9k miles on EV. I do 25k/year and I can guarantee that I would get better than 9,100 EV miles with my route (Over the last 10k miles I did 20% on ev in my PC)... and this is with an assumption that he can't plug in at work.
     
    BigWIll likes this.
  3. dellrio

    dellrio Im pretty much awesome

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    281
    88
    37
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Hahaha - lots of assumptions and speculation here regarding operating costs. Sorry I wasnt around this weekend to get in on all this fun.

    Here is my thought - On the prius C, I paid $23k For the Volt I will be effectively paying $25,500 - so as far as cost - $2k is pretty much a wash in my eyes.

    As far as operating cost, Yes I will for sure save money with the volt over the PriusC. I am an analyst for my job and pretty much everywhere in life - So believe me, I have gone over this many many times in my head.

    First off I will say, I love the Prius, and I love the Prius C - they are fantastic cars and I have absolutely nothing bad to say about any of them. The reason for my decisions was not cost, as I make enough money that I could be driving a much more expensive vehicle, cost is a non issue to me.

    Factors to consider in my decision
    1. I have been hooked on Volt Technology since 2007 when it was announced, in fact I used to drive electric forklifts in a warehouse back in 2003, I was already looking into why this technology did not exist.

    2. Looks - I prefer the Prius C to the Prius on looks, but in all honesty, I think the Volt is one of the most beautiful vehicle designs on a Efficient vehicle today - its sleek sporty, and just looks good.

    3. Performance - I mean really no question here. Volt ~150HP high Torque electric motor vs PriusC with a combined ~100HP.

    4. I know there are political views and opinions here, but It does feel good to buy an American ASSEMBLED vehicle, the Prius is still assembled in Japan, and the purchase of a prius does send some money out of the country, while I agree toyota in general provides thousands of jobs domestically, the Prius is stil assembled overseas.

    So as you can see here - I dont really care about payback period or anything like that - it purely regarding the fact that its something I want and something I can afford. I dont hear people comapring payback periods regarding Lexus, Mercedes, or Prosche etc. Again Nothing personal - everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect everyones opinion regarding that - This is my personal preferance, and what I choose to do.

    Regarding Operating cost... Some factors to consider

    1 - Very low electric rate of 7 cents per kWh where I live, so on a Volt I am looking at about 77 cents per day for a full charge that should cover my M-F work commute of 34 Miles per day.

    2 - Opportunity Charging, My weekend Job is 35 Miles away 1 way, but I am able to charge for free at that job - already been discussed with the Owner, so that 70 Miles round trip on the weekend commute should be mostly electric too ( and with half of it for free ).

    3. All my other miles come from Road Trips - I take a few trips to visit Parents a year at 150 Miles one way, will take about 3 Gallons there and 3 Gallons back considering My parents will let me charge at their place.

    4. The Volt is offered with a 0% interest Loan right now, so the savings on interest offset the $2k effective cost difference.

    5. Lastly - regardless of what other people get in their Prii, My Prius C has proven to me over and over that on a highway driving the speed limit, It will only return 40-42MPG - Dont know why its lower than everyone else but thats how it has been - I have 24,000 miles on the C to back that up. If the volt returns me 35 or better Highway, the cost difference should be negligible. A trip to Colorado in March I reset trip B to monitor the trip MPG and it came in at 39 MPG for the trip. (FWIW, My Gen3 with the 1.8L returned 45MPG for the same CO trip). The 1.5L in the C just works a lot harder at those high speeds.

    So that was my justification - that will be my driving expense - I have a huge elaborate spreadsheet created to map out expense, and I will save money with the Volt, Savings will be in the the $400 a year range with all things considered ( including registration, insurance, elec, Fuel, maintenence (volt requires less), and payment ).

    The volt I purchased is Black - I also ordered some wheels, tint, 100sqft of MegaMat, and have some other ideas for customizing as well. Here is a picture of the car with the wheels I ordered. Have a great day everyone and Much love to the Prius People of the world - we are all shooting for the same goal - I am just choosing a different path to get there. :)

    volt.jpg

    Edit- One more thing to consider, I pay a lot of money in Taxes, so getting $7500 back ( and still paying in more than most americans) will be a win for me in my book - I hate paying taxes to support a government that does not necissarily have my best interest in mind all the time. Aditionally My current transportation outlay is $390 a month on the Prius C, and $210 a month on My Motorcycle - or $600 a month in total. My intention is to use the tax credit to pay off the bike, with the downpayment on the Volt my monthly expense is going to be $525, so that will free up an additional $75 a month in my budget, while effectively refinancing the bike to a 0% interest loan saving money there as well, the bike is currently at 13% (they say credit is not much of a factor because the loan was small - but I call BS - they just charge that BC they can) the motorcycle loan was not my smartest move, I should have just paid cash for it - but I will ocntinue to play this debt leverage game, as I find it exciting all the time - keeps my mind on point.

    One more edit - In case anyone wants more detail on Operating Cost...
    My calculations show that that I will burn 360 Gallons of gas per year less using the Volt than the Prius. Some assumptions I used
    - Volt 35Mi Elec Range and 35MPG Gas ( People see higher in real world on both of these -im being conservative)
    -Prius C 45 MPG - This is literally my 1 year MPG tracked to the gallon and mile, I know others get better MPG, I do not - also why I went low on the volt estimates

    My driving pattern ( Iwork 365 nearly days a year - weekends and Holidays - what are those? )
    34 Miles * 200 Days
    70 Miles * 151 Days
    150 Miles * 4 Days
    3000 Miles * 1 Trip
    The remaining driving to account for the ~25K miles a year would be from small in town trips like groceries, concerts, entertainment, etc...
     
    minkus likes this.
  4. dellrio

    dellrio Im pretty much awesome

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    281
    88
    37
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Yes Negative Equity sucks - but as I mentioned above - Cost is a non-issue. I chose the C for looks when I traded in the 2 year old Gen3. I Paid $23 for the Prius C, put 24,321 Miles on it in 1 year and 3 weeks, It needs a windshield replacement, and the tires are halfway used up. (Tires - $600 for a good LRR so lets say $300 in tires, Windshield quote $700). I got $17k for the trade in so I paid $6000 to drive the car for a year minus the cost of repairs ($1000) because that would have come out of pocket had I kept the car. So effective loss on the vehicle was $5,000 for 24k Miles or about 4.8 cents per mile to drive. Because of toyota care, my first year maintenece costs were non existant, so still a pretty good deal in my opinion. But what it comes down to agian - I dont care about payback or cost - I could be driving a $70k escalade getting 14MPG if I wanted - I choose cars with the lowest operating cost, to free up money for investments for my future. ( I want to retire before age 60 ). I think its great that many of you show so much concern for my financial best interest - like I said - Prius people are great, just like the cars! ;)
     
  5. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    585
    152
    0
    Location:
    Monterey CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A

    Tax incentives don't work for everyone. It's a BS come on. It's a percentage tax credit, not a cash rebate.
    Everyone gets all hyped up over this, only to find out it's very little money :eek: IT sounds great on paper :ROFLMAO:
     
    dbcassidy likes this.
  6. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    It's great if you lease then buy... you get the full $7500 off the front end of the lease. Lease first, then 2 months later get a loan for the price of the car. Would be no different, except that you are already ahead of the game. Here in Georgia you get an additional $5k in State credit. That one is a little harder to use, but it rolls over.
     
  7. dellrio

    dellrio Im pretty much awesome

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    281
    88
    37
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    I paid $13450 in Federal Taxes last year - I can assure you - I am eligible for the full $7500. :) I know it does not work for everyone - I am not trying to make a case for anyone to buy anything - People should focus on what works for them - in my case - the Volt works for me - The Prius C worked for me as well, I just prefer the volt today.
     
  8. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    585
    152
    0
    Location:
    Monterey CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    You don't get $7500.00 dollars. You get a tax credit for $7500.00 dollars on your income total.
    The average tax credit on that 7500 comes out to a whopping total of $2000.00 dollars, if you're lucky.
    It's NOT $7500.00 dollars in your pocket.............. IT's a TAX CREDIT and nothing more.
     
  9. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    and as he said... he paid $13,450 last year... so as long as he experiences the same thing... it will be the same as calling it a $7500 check. He won't have to pay $7500 of his $13,450 that he paid last year.
     
    dellrio likes this.
  10. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    2,027
    586
    65
    Location:
    CO
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A


    The credit is a 7500 tax credit off your liability, not a deduction from total income. Very important difference as a deduction from income has only a fractional impact on tax liability, and nothing for those like me that don't have enough deuctions to make it worth while to itemizes vs the standard deductions.

    My total tax liability, i.e.what I "owed" the IRS, was $108,214 but with the tax credit my total liability was reduced to 100,714. (Yeah I pay a LOT in taxes.) I did not get a rebate check as I am financially astute, so I reduced one of my quarterly estimated tax payments to effectively recover the money in October year, so on tax day in april I actually owned just a bit-- but the saving to my investment accounts, over the price I paid for the car, was $7500 reduction in what I paid in taxes.


    On the other hand I did go out an earn an extra $55,000 or so that year, so I could pay cash for the car (including the added taxes etc), so in a preverse way the volt+ tax incentive enticed me to go earn and extra $55K in income and pay over $15000 in additional taxes, and the $7500 credit was just the government letting me keep a bit more while they still earned more in taxes from me..
     
  11. dellrio

    dellrio Im pretty much awesome

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    281
    88
    37
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    That would be a tax deduction man, this is a credit - definition of a credit is a direct reduction in the amount of taxes owed, not to exceed the full amount of taxes paid. As opposed to a refundable tax credit - which is refundable in the entire amount of the credit even if that amount exceeds the total taxes owed. Believe me this I am positive of - was an accountant - and know 3 people personally who spend their 7500 credit last year... I think you are getting those Credit - and Refundable Credit confused.
     
  12. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    It is based on his tax liability... he said that was over $100k so he should have no problem.
     
  13. dellrio

    dellrio Im pretty much awesome

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    281
    88
    37
    Location:
    Des Moines, IA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Three
    Yeah - I think we are on the same page - I was just a little behind and that was in response to DrDiesel - I just forgot to quote in the response.
     
    ztanos likes this.
  14. Ashley7

    Ashley7 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    542
    220
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius
    Model:
    XLE
    This thread is funny... We Prius owners always complain when we're made to justify the cost of a hybrid over a conventional engine, and we understand that sometimes there are reasons other than pure savings to get a particular car, yet here we all are grilling someone who chose to pay a little more to go fully electric. Silly silly humans.

    Enjoy your new Volt, it seems like a great car.
     
  15. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    585
    152
    0
    Location:
    Monterey CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    To bad a Volt isn't an EV :eek: It's a hybrid the same as the Prius except in design. It has an ICE to support
    the battery pack and the tranny has a planetary drive coupler too :eek:
     
  16. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Mechanically it's a better hybrid than our car. Ours would have no possible way to use that little gas. ;)
     
  17. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    1,581
    290
    3
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    IIRC, cows produce a lot of methane (4 stomachs?). If we could only harness the gas for our vehicles.

    DBCassidy

    Prius HSD is way more refined than the Volt. All GM did was electric motors, large battery and a crappy ICE. Oh, and added some s/w to make it work. Nothing really innovative there. Plug ins have been around since the early 1900's, big oil and (yep) GM drove them into the ground. The gasoline engine proved longer ranges could (and still do) out perform EVs. The public took to the gasoline engine like a firestorm and never looked back.

    DBCassidy

    Time is the better judge of being a better car mechanically. Quality of GM products went right down the tube, losing the confidence and market share. GM did themselves in, then used the Volt to snooker the pols to give them a "bailout" The Volt did its' job - we taxpayer are still paying for GM. Some will say its' government money, well where does one think the money comes from, the sky?

    10 years from now, lets see the large junk piles of Volts ready to be ground up. Meanwhile, millions of 10 year old Toyotas will be as reliable as ever, including the ever expanding Prius Hybrid family.

    DBCassidy

    Ask the average Joe what the Volt is, they don't know.

    Ask the average Joe what the Prius is, they say hybrid.:)

    DBCassidy

    Smoke and mirrors.

    DBCassidy
     
  18. Maz94protege

    Maz94protege New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    18
    5
    0
    Vehicle:
    2013 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    I did the opposite, I had a LEAF, then got a VOLT and traded a gas guzzler for a Prius v. Im happy to be in the Prius family now and with 2 Green Cars im loving life. the VOLT is one of my most favorite cars Ive owned, I do not feel ashamed when I push the pedal and suck down electricity, its a quick car (much faster than the Prius) and very all purpose capable. Glad you kept within the green cars, you'll enjoy having no gas for 35-48miles per charge I regularly get 44miles without trying and sometimes I've hit 52 being very gentle with no air on a 68degree day.

    Sorry to see you leave, but your not going far as your still staying away from gas (as much as possible).

    Im on GM-Volt Forum, see you there!
     
    drinnovation and dellrio like this.
  19. ztanos

    ztanos All-around Geek!

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    3,336
    1,141
    40
    Location:
    Cumming, Georgia
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Four


    I don't trust their quality, but it beats the premise of the PIP, hands down. 40 miles is perfect for the majority of drivers, but the PIP just drops it short. That was all I meant. My grandfather retired from GM Lordstown, so I get the GM discount, but I will never buy another GM product... at least not until they prove themselves. But then, I think that goes for all of the Big 3.
     
  20. Drdiesel

    Drdiesel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2013
    585
    152
    0
    Location:
    Monterey CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A

    The high cost of lithium batteries are the cause if PiP range issue. If the PiP's had a 14 KWH battery, they too could do 40+ miles, but it would double or almost triple the current weight and probably add another $6K.

    It's all a balancing act. Weight VS Cost VS benefit. I think the C would be a great candidate for a larger "LITHIUM" battery. I would venture to say, it it could be a 70+ MPG< PiP :cool:

    I did an extended road test of the C-Max Energi with it's 7.6KWH lithium battery and it had all kinds of EV power :cool: I think it's a perfect balance of battery VS weight VS cost for any plug-in hybrid.
     
Loading...