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Gore tells Pres. Bush he needs to goto war.

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bigmahma, Jun 12, 2007.

  1. bigmahma

    bigmahma New Member

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    Terrorists (who didn't exsist until we invaded Iraq) were attacking Americans..

    Oh - also Gore said that IRAQ was pursuing Nukes.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64


    I LOVE GORE! LETS GOTO WAR!!!!

    Here you go - a transcript if your computer is too slow for youtube.

    ALGORE: Bush deserves heavy blame for intentionally concealing from the American people the clear nature of Saddam Hussein and his regime and for convincing himself that friendly relations with such a monster would be possible and for persisting in this effort far, far beyond the point of folly.

    Throughout this period, Saddam's atrocities continued. In March of 1988, Saddam used poison gas on the Kurdish town of Halabja, brutally murdering some 5,000 innocent men, women, and children. And none of us can ever forget the pictures of their bodies, of parents trying to shield their infants, even in death --

    that were in our news media and around the world. The Iran-Iraq war then ended in August of 1988, and Iraq had not prevailed, but neither had it been defeated. As a result, you would think that the administration would give our policies a second look to see if they should be altered. But the Reagan-Bush administration never hesitated even when the news became much, much worse.

    In January 1989 President George Bush was sworn in. Based on plentiful evidence, he had reason to know that his ongoing policy regarding Iraq was already malfunctioning badly. Just last week we learned of a memorandum written in March of that year, just two months after his inauguration, to secretary of state James Baker, as Baker prepared to meet with a senior Iraqi official in which the author of the memorandum noted that Iraq continued to cooperate with terrorists, that it was meddling in Lebanon, that it was working hard at chemical and biological weapons and new missiles. These are exact quotes --



    These are exact quotes from the memorandum to the administration. And most significant of all, in the same month, September of 1989, the CIA reported to secretary of state Baker and other top Bush administration officials that Iraq was clandestinely procuring nuclear weapons technology through a global network --

    of front companies. Did all of this make any impression at all on President Bush? Did his judgment on foreign policy come into play when he was told that this nation, with a record of terrorism continuing was making a sustained, concerted effort to acquire weapons of mass destruction, nuclear, chemical, and biological? Well, evidently not.


    The text of NSD 26 blindly ignores the evidence already at the administration's disposal of Iraqi behavior in the past regarding human rights, terrorism, the use of chemical weapons, the pursuit of advanced weapons of mass destruction. Instead, it makes a heroic assumption of good behavior in the future on the basis of an interesting theory, namely, that Iraq would suddenly and completely change its ways out of a fear of economic and political sanctions. Well, it leaps from the page that George Bush, both as vice president and president, had done his utmost to make sure that no such sanctions would ever apply to Saddam Hussein. ... The question is unavoidable: Why should Saddam Hussein be at all concerned about a threat of action in the future from George Bush, the same man who had resolutely blocked any such action in the past? To the contrary, Saddam had every reason to assume that Bush would look the other way no matter he did. He had already launched poison gas attacks repeatedly, and Bush looked the other way. He had already conducted extensive terrorism activities, and Bush had looked the other way. He was already deeply involved in the effort to acquire nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, and Bush knew it, but he looked the other way.






    And if you can STAND THE TRUTH - here is RUSH talking about this clip - Most liberals want to throw up at this point because THEIR IDOL is an idiot.






    RUSH: You've got to hear this. Algore, September 29th, 1992 at the Center for National Policy. He is then Democrat vice presidential nominee. Algore is on the campaign trail, and he was speaking again to the Center for National Policy about the George H. W. Bush Iraq policy as vice president and president. We have three sound bites. Here's the first.

    ALGORE: Bush deserves heavy blame for intentionally concealing from the American people the clear nature of Saddam Hussein and his regime and for convincing himself that friendly relations with such a monster would be possible and for persisting in this effort far, far beyond the point of folly.

    RUSH: You really believe this?

    ALGORE: Throughout this period, Saddam's atrocities continued. In March of 1988, Saddam used poison gas on the Kurdish town of Halabja, brutally murdering some 5,000 innocent men, women, and children. And none of us can ever forget the pictures of their bodies, of parents trying to shield their infants, even in death --

    RUSH: Hold it a second. Stop the tape. You've forgotten about it. It doesn't matter to you at all now. It didn't exist. This is incredible. Here's the rest of this bite.

    ALGORE: -- that were in our news media and around the world. The Iran-Iraq war then ended in August of 1988, and Iraq had not prevailed, but neither had it been defeated. As a result, you would think that the administration would give our policies a second look to see if they should be altered. But the Reagan-Bush administration never hesitated even when the news became much, much worse.

    RUSH: This is not an impersonator. This is genuine and legitimate from September 29th of 1992. Here's the second of three bites that we have.

    ALGORE: In January 1989 President George Bush was sworn in. Based on plentiful evidence, he had reason to know that his ongoing policy regarding Iraq was already malfunctioning badly. Just last week we learned of a memorandum written in March of that year, just two months after his inauguration, to secretary of state James Baker, as Baker prepared to meet with a senior Iraqi official in which the author of the memorandum noted that Iraq continued to cooperate with terrorists, that it was meddling in Lebanon, that it was working hard at chemical and biological weapons and new missiles. These are exact quotes --


    RUSH: Stop the tape! Algore. You heard it just said that James Baker and George H. W. Bush were ignoring the fact that Saddam was working with terrorists. Now the standard line of the Democrat Party today, the Drive-By Media, is there were no terrorists in Iraq prior to 9/11. We're talking 1989, 1990 here. There weren't any terrorists, Saddam wasn't doing anything bad, Bush lied, Bush made it all up. This is incredible. Here's the rest of the bite.

    ALGORE: These are exact quotes from the memorandum to the administration. And most significant of all, in the same month, September of 1989, the CIA reported to secretary of state Baker and other top Bush administration officials that Iraq was clandestinely procuring nuclear weapons technology through a global network --

    RUSH: Whoa, whoa, whoa -- do you realize they want to impeach Dick Cheney over this? They have been trying to impeach -- well, his credibility, destroy him politically over his claims that Iraq was working on nuclear weapons. Now, we've played for you the sound bites of Bill Clinton saying in 1998 everything that George W. Bush said about Iraq in 2002 and 2003, but this goes back to 1992. This is vice perpetrator candidate Algore running for the office, he's on the campaign trail here. These are liberals. This is who they are. He's laying out a real threat here, laying out a real threat, and finally somebody came along and did something about the real threat and they want to destroy the US military for succeeding. They want to make sure we don't succeed any further and they want to destroy the president who actually acted on these claims that everybody knew were true. Here's the rest of this bite.

    ALGORE: -- of front companies. Did all of this make any impression at all on President Bush? Did his judgment on foreign policy come into play when he was told that this nation, with a record of terrorism continuing was making a sustained, concerted effort to acquire weapons of mass destruction, nuclear, chemical, and biological? Well, evidently not.

    RUSH: Yeah, apparently didn't make any difference to you when you and Clinton got in the White House because you didn't do anything about it, either. I know this is the campaign trail, folks, but you don't get a pass for lying this big and contradicting yourself this much. This is utter dishonesty, it is utter hypocrisy and I'm just going to suggest to you that when you've got somebody as deranged as this, Albert Arnold Algore, you've got to take into account now what he's saying about global warming. How can you believe anything somebody like this happens to say? Here's the third bite in our troika.

    ALGORE: The text of NSD 26 blindly ignores the evidence already at the administration's disposal of Iraqi behavior in the past regarding human rights, terrorism, the use of chemical weapons, the pursuit of advanced weapons of mass destruction. Instead, it makes a heroic assumption of good behavior in the future on the basis of an interesting theory, namely, that Iraq would suddenly and completely change its ways out of a fear of economic and political sanctions. Well, it leaps from the page that George Bush, both as vice president and president, had done his utmost to make sure that no such sanctions would ever apply to Saddam Hussein. ... The question is unavoidable: Why should Saddam Hussein be at all concerned about a threat of action in the future from George Bush, the same man who had resolutely blocked any such action in the past? To the contrary, Saddam had every reason to assume that Bush would look the other way no matter he did. He had already launched poison gas attacks repeatedly, and Bush looked the other way. He had already conducted extensive terrorism activities, and Bush had looked the other way. He was already deeply involved in the effort to acquire nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction, and Bush knew it, but he looked the other way.


    RUSH: Do you believe that? Algore demanding action on Iraq because Saddam was associating with terrorists, was gassing people with mustard gas and other chemical weapons, his own people, and was trying to develop nuclear weapons along with other weapons of mass destruction, consorting with terrorists, Lebanon, and so forth, and demanding that George H. W. Bush do something about it. Now, you just contrast this with any of the rhetoric coming out of these guys' mouths today, "There was never any reason to go to Iraq, Bush lied." You know the drill, you know all of this. Now, there's somebody out there trying to sound another warning, this time about Iran, and it's Joe Lieberman. This is Sunday on Slay the Nation.
     
  2. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    [attachmentid=8804]
    We knew Saddam Hussein had WMDs in the 90s because Reagan had provided them.

    Gore was correct in his statements of 1992.The UN removed Iraqs WMD capabilities prior to the 2003 invasion.But you and Limbaugh think Gores 1992 statements should still apply to 2003?
     

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  3. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mojo @ Jun 12 2007, 08:46 PM) [snapback]460514[/snapback]</div>
    Strawberry or Grape?
     
  4. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 13 2007, 07:01 AM) [snapback]460772[/snapback]</div>
    Now, thanks for giving me a laugh :D
     
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Jun 13 2007, 09:18 AM) [snapback]460783[/snapback]</div>
    My pleasure

    Have a nice day

    Be safe

    David
     
  6. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    Here's NSD 26 by the way:
    http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/nsd/nsd26.pdf

    It advocates us doing us being all nice and friendly to Iraq. It's dated October 2, 1989. Just a year before, in August, Saddam was gassing the Kurds.

    Senator Kennedy in 1988 introduced the Prevention of Genocide Act in the senate, quashed by the Republicans. No. They thought the smart thing to do to punish Saddam ... was to sell him stuff.

    So I take y'all are disagreeing with Al here? That in fact our cozying up to Saddam in 1989 was a really smart thing to do? I mean, it's not like we later had to fight a war with him. DOH!
     
  7. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Jun 13 2007, 09:50 AM) [snapback]460796[/snapback]</div>
    I think the real fought lies with the Ottomans and Brits?

    Did you read the editorial in the WSJ today by Maliki? It was very interesting. Worthwhile reading.
     
  8. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 13 2007, 09:05 AM) [snapback]460804[/snapback]</div>
    :)

    Nope haven't read it yet, will check it out. And actually there's a book of history on the Ottoman Empire I keep seeing at the Borders 3-for-2 table that keeps tempting me to read it. Currently reading an excellent book by Gerard Prunier on the situation in Darfur.
     
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Jun 13 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]460814[/snapback]</div>
    Isn't that another conflict involving Islam?
     
  10. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    Actually, it takes two to have a conflict.

    ---

    Pardon me; that's one of those closed comments that really don't contribute to the discussion.

    Still can't figure out how to delete a post...

    ---

    [sigh] this was, like, fifteen years ago? I'm sorry, I don't follow...so you're saying that, finally, GWB is paying 'em back for those atrocities, a decade and a half later...?

    ...that, based on these comments the the Dems did indeed want to attack Iraq...and so their current comments about this being "Bush's War" are duplicious?

    What am I missing here?
     
  11. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Well, that settles it then.

    Democrats suck. Republicans rule. It has been proven by Rush. Finally, we can start moving forward, and fixing all these annoying little issues now that we know who's fault it all is. Mission Accomplished!
     
  12. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    Bush <strike>hoovered blow out of a bedpan</strike> had a bad case of allergies back then, didn't he...?

    Uh oh, that didn't come out quite as unbiased as I'd hoped...
    [smile]

    Seriously, I can't remember when, exactly, he found God...was that before or after Gore's comments?

    ------

    FYI, this is only an attempt to derail the conversation.

    Here's how I really feel: People change and grow as they mature. President Bush used to do drugs and alcohol...now he's a Christian. He's not the man he once was; I believe that he's asked us to (in a sense at least) forgive him for who he was before, and we have. We accept him for who he's become.

    Why, then, can we not extend the same courtesy to others? So one man said one thing fifteen years ago. Whoop-de-do!
     
  13. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jun 13 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]461016[/snapback]</div>
    True. Name one conflict of the several dozen ongoing conflicts on planet earth that does NOT involve Muslims?
     
  14. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    Another way to look at it is:

    Name one conflict of the several dozen ongoing conflicts on planet earth that does NOT involve Christians?

    or

    Name one conflict of the several dozen ongoing conflicts on planet earth that does NOT involve poverty, corrupt government and economical stagnation?

    What came first? No hope of (personal) economical growth (or even sustainability) or fundamental Islam? Will going after Islam really help our cause? Would all the conflict disappear if they all (over night) became christians? Or is the problem maybe a lot more practical then that?
     
  15. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 10:37 AM) [snapback]461512[/snapback]</div>
    just answer the question instead of obfuscating.

    and yes, going after islam - if you mean modernizing it, something it failed to do on its own, is necessary.

    now, name one of the worlds conflicts that does NOT involve muslims?
     
  16. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    I don't think the question you ask is of much value and tried to point that out with a rhetorical question. But I see this is not a debate as you already have made your mind up.

    The problem, as I see it, is not religion but prosperity. Give people a chance of prosperity and the interest in violent doom goes down. I don't think we stand a chance modernizing Islam with out prosperity/stability. How we create that in the middle east is beyond me. But blaming the problem on Islam seem a backwards way to go at it.

    So I'm not willing to blame "muslims" for the problems we are facing as that to me is missing the point.
     
  17. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]461512[/snapback]</div>
    Precisely. Poverty, corruption, and economic stagnation are much more important factors, and were in many ways the leading cause of the rebellion in Darfur (the population had endured all three factors pretty much all century), a case of Muslims rebelling against a Muslim government.

    Similar conditions of poverty, corruption, and economic stagnation exist in Columbia, in its decades long war against the FARC, and in Uganda, with the LRA. Both of these countries are primarily Christian.
     
  18. scargi01

    scargi01 Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SomervillePrius @ Jun 14 2007, 09:54 AM) [snapback]461528[/snapback]</div>
    So if prosperity diminishes the interest in violent doom, how come Osama Bin Laden, worth hundreds of millions in oil money, is so hell bent on destroying western civilization? Where is his interest in violent doom rooted? Maybe in a society that hasn't advanced beyond the 12th century, in part, because the dominant religion doesn't want to.
     
  19. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05_SilverPri @ Jun 14 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]461540[/snapback]</div>
    There can be a single person exception to any rule, but the point is that the first primary focus of Bin Laden's ire was the government of Saudi Arabia, a perfect case of corruption and stagnation. Sure, there's some super wealthy people there, but not the general populace.

    In 2005, Indonesia ran a trade surplus with export revenues of US$83.64 billion and import expenditure of US$62.02 billion. It's the most populous Muslim country in the world. How many wars has it started lately?
     
  20. SomervillePrius

    SomervillePrius New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(05_SilverPri @ Jun 14 2007, 11:05 AM) [snapback]461540[/snapback]</div>
    I don't think it's interesting to look at one person (or small group) at a time. People are driven by personal motivation that are complex. So there are always exceptions. Bin Laden sees himself as the (religious) leader of the oppressed muslims and as such it's not his personal wealth that is the question. He wants regim change. He becomes popular in the middle east as youth (mostly men) have no hope for economic prosperity and feel trapped/depressed/opressed by both the leaders in their country as well as the outside world.

    But look at societies overall, if you have reasonable prosperity and limited corruption rebellions tend to go down (over time). The average Joe is not at that point willing to put up or protect the fundamentalists "freedom" fighters once he is invested in the economy.

    I'm not saying I have any answers on how to solve this problem. I just feel that going after the Islam part is missing the point. They could really be from any religion and come up with a doomsday cult.