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Gulf Oil Disaster - Political Implications

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Felt, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    The cost of gasoline has inches up for the past several weeks in my area, probably in preparation for the summer driving seaon. In view of the recent off-shore oil platform blow-out in the Gulf of Mexico, is anyone finding the cost has spiked in your area? I know that one platform did not product but a fraction of the overall domestic production ... but the political ramifications could be significant. Already the administration is curbing off-shore exploration ... that would seem to make us more vulnerable to foreign producers.

    I am thinking I bought my G3 at just about the right time. There have been at least one, and I think two price increases since we bought in July.

    Any thoughts?
     
  2. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    "Price increases"... there have been but with the recalls, seems to be people are walking off the lots right now with incredible deals.
    I suppose the oil future market will rise if it has not already... and we will all pay in the end through our wallets and environment.
     
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  3. LeadingEdgeBoomer

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    I've been reading to learn details about this. The political implications may not be severe. It will take a long time to actually implement the administration's approval of offshore drilling, so there is time to figure this out.

    Meanwhile, I think investigators will discover that one safety shutoff on the rig did not work correctly, and another (remote shutoff operable via underwater signal or by a robot sub) was not installed on this rig. The upshot should be that the former shutoff needs to be frequently maintained and tested, and the latter needs to be required on all rigs (also tested and maintained).

    BP has come forward to say they will cover any private or government costs for fix, cleanup, or damages. They have been wide open with state and federal governments. Likewise, the feds have been all over this since the beginning. Today the Secretary of Defense approved Louisiana's request for 3 months of many national guard troops to help with cleanup.

    This is not to say that the bottom line won't dwarf the Exxon Valdez spill, with huge damages and costs--BP is on the hook.
     
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  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    This is now required by law.

    Tom
     
  5. tpfun

    tpfun New Member

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    It's as simple as adding yet another shutoff switch or valve, there, problem addressed, isn't it ?
     
  6. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Yeah. What IS it with the politics? I don't get it. We're looking at what could become the worst environmental disaster ever. Yet the worry is...the political ramifications? And the price of gas? :tsk:
     
  7. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Yeah ... I can play that card too.
    Eleven workers lost their lives, yet the worry is about the environment? The question was asked in the context that everything is politics..... not the least of which is the environment.

    To be sure it is a mega-disaster in the making. In an effort to keep the post short, all the ramifications were not mentioned. I am from the Gulf Coast area and I know first hand that this will be an absolute disaster of monumental proportions for much more than the eco system and the wildlife. I worry about all the families that make their living from the Gulf, the shellfish and the tourist, as well as teh off-shore workers that live with danger every day. I have family that work off shore and many more that work in the petro-chemical industry.
     
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  8. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    Both Exxon Valdez and Deepwater Horizon were Preventable. !@#$%

    Arguably, neither the Exxon Valdez nor the [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon]Deepwater Horizon[/ame]

    disasters had to happen. Both these disasters share a common element.
    In both cases the responsible federal oversight agency asked Exxon and
    British Petroleum (BP), to install some optional equipment that would have
    minimized, if not prevented the ecological disaster that did, and may very
    well follow.

    In the case of the Exxon Valdez, long before the ~10 million gallon spill,
    the responsible Federal regulatory oversight agency, the Coast Guard,
    asked Exxon to install what amounted to a small area GPS system in
    Prince William Sound. The Exxon tankers carrying oil out of Valdez would
    have receivers and equipment that tracked the Exxon tankers as they
    transited Prince William Sound (PWS). Should the vessels stray from
    pre-established track lines, there would would be loud, persistent audio
    warnings sounded on the bridge as a warning that would have to be
    actively acknowledged by the bridge personnel. A signal may also
    have been sent to the Valdez Coast Guard.

    But Exxon said not only no, but Hell No! There had been hundreds of
    transits of Exxon tankers through PWS. There had not been a single
    accident. It follows that there was no risk, and no need for the system
    that cost about $500K to implement. And according to the regulatory
    scheme in place, the Coast Guard could not demand implementation, and
    moral suasion wasn't enough to move Exxon.

    The case of the Deepwater Horizon is similar. In this case BP was asked
    install an a piece of remotely operated equipment that could be activated
    from off the rig and stop oil flow at the well head, some 18,000 ft below the
    surface. BP declined citing no demonstrated need, excessive cost -- about
    $500K -- and the opinion that it probably wouldn't work anyway. Again
    the accident history showed that there was no demonstrable need as there
    have been no similar casualties in the Gulf, that is loss of an entire rig --
    and 11 lives.

    In the case of the Deepwater Horizon, the potential size of the "spill,"
    more properly a "release," is unlimited. How big is the oil bubble the rig's drill
    had tapped? How long will it take to secure the drill head or drill another well
    to relieve the pressure?

    What has happened in these cases is not the "fault" of the responsible
    federal oversight agencies. It is a known weakness of the Federal
    regulatory process. It is reactive, not forward looking or forward leaning.
    At least in the maritime world, regulations are made in response to
    casualties/disasters/loss of life. That's the way the process was designed
    and implemented. Woe be to the agency that in good conscience, the
    public trust, or mere good intentions tries to implement and enforce
    regulations without irrefutable statistical proof they are needed and have
    a huge positive cost/benefit ratio.

    Up to now, Exxon has paid an estimated $8.5B for the Valdez spill. That's
    against the cost of the local GPS system of ~$500K, that's a 17,000 to 1
    payout. Yet IIRC, in recent years Exxon has reported record annual
    profits. (What is wrong with this picture?)

    I trust, hopefully not to be proven otherwise, that the Federal Nuclear
    Regulatory Agency has the authority to be more proactive in protecting
    us.

    In the case of the airlines, most every disaster has accompanying loss of
    life. Citizens as taxpayers and voters and probable frequent fliers don't
    like the sound of that and insist on strong commercial aviation regulations
    and frequent on-site oversight. Citizens who live anywhere in the country
    can easily conjure up a picture of commercial aircraft falling out of the
    sky and obliterating them, their loved ones, or neighbors, no matter where
    they live.

    The same is not true for safety concerns for activities on or under the
    oceans, gulfs, etc. Most citizens never see the oceans/off shore waters all
    that often. On a daily basis, they don't feel any urgency or anticipate any
    effect on them or their loved ones. Changes will come slowly if at all.

    BEGIN RANT :target:

    What ever happened to, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?"
    IMHO, it's really pretty simple. Under the constant influence of Wall Street
    and the lust for short term profits the axiom has been rewritten. It now
    reads:
    A penny of profits is better than an ounce of prevention, and trust me,
    we won't ever need a cure.


    But the system is broken. When will it become not just apparent but a
    matter of urgent concern to the people and their elected representatives
    that our "Homeland Security" is not just troops in the field, or domestic
    anti-terrorist measures.

    True Homeland Security is needed here, right where we live, not away
    out/over there, half a world away. It has to do with the security of our
    banking and investment institutions, with the effectiveness of our
    educational system, with the safety of our promised social security
    programs, the non-over exploitation of our natural resources -- our legacy
    to the future -- with readily available clean water for every one, the
    availability of competent health care. When will we as a nation wake up?

    END RANT. :flame:

    (Feel free to add your most anger provoking nationally self-inflicted
    "Homeland Security" short falls/violations.)

    See also The Ambulance in the Valley.
     
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  9. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns, Felt; it sounded to me like the first concern was politics, and not the things that really matter - some of which you mentioned in your second post.

    I'm not playing cards. This is all too real.
     
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  10. Trebuchet

    Trebuchet Senior Member

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    I think we should do away with all domestic oil production and buy everything we need from the Middle East. :rolleyes:
     
  11. spiderman

    spiderman wretched

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    Re: Both Exxon Valdez and Deepwater Horizon were Preventable. !@#$%

    I will say that as a result of the Valdez spill, two heavy tugs escort the tankers in and out of Valdez (albeit the were trying just recently to reduce it to one). Also I believe the last single hull tanker is due to retire real soon (now all double hull). Also there is now actively monitor with radar as well. So there is change happening unfortunately it took such a disaster to make it happen.
    So yeah, I hear you on the prevention thing.
     
  12. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    Each disaster is a fluke, a one in a million. Or billion. Unfortunately, there are infinite ways for things to go wrong.

    The people who want energy independence have their collective heads up their arses. Rather than demand wind and solar, they are hoping the inevitable next oil disaster will not happen.
     
  13. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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    Daily Kos: BP Oil Platform Spill Disaster is CHENEY'S Fault UPDATED

    "An 'acoustic switch' would have prevented this catastrophe - it's a failsafe that shuts the flow of oil off at the source - they cost only about half a million dollars each, and are required in off-shore drilling platforms in most of the world...except for the United States. This was one of the new deregulations devised by Dick Cheney during his secret meetings with the oil industry at the beginning of Bush's first term."

    Leaking Oil Well Lacked Safeguard Device - WSJ.com
     
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  14. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

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    sw0430cd__1272650795_0808.jpg

    [​IMG]

    :mad:
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pelican brief-jurassic park. life imitates art.
     
  16. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Clear example of "politics" being at the root of every issue. Finding someone to blame becomesso much more important that stopping the oil flow, morning the deaths, protecting the eco-system, or the employment of off-shore fishermen.
     
  17. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Politics being what politics is; corruption and bribery and lobbying having the power they do; the vast quantities of money involved; and the imperfection of machines built by people; all together mean that this sort of accident is INEVITABLE as long as we Americans DEMAND gasoline.

    Petroleum is a drug, and just as all the law-enforcement in the world will not stop the flow of drugs into the country while the demand for them remains and people are willing to pay whatever they must to get them; so also these sorts of accidents will continue to occur as long as WE remain addicted to gasoline and are willing to pay whatever we must (in money and environmental degradation) to get it.

    No matter what accident you anticipate and regulate against, whether pro-actively or reactively, something else will go wrong that you did not think of. As Pogo said, the enemy is us, and specifically our addiction to oil. In other threads, drug addicts have been called "criminals" because there happen to be laws against using drugs. But WE, ALL OF US are drug addicts, and our addiction is causing far more harm than the drugs people put into themselves with needles or by smoking.

    BP didn't cause this. Dick Cheney didn't cause it. You and I caused it. And if we cannot break our addiction, there will be other oil disasters, some lesser, and some greater, than this one.
     
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  18. Politburo

    Politburo Active Member

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    While I don't like the immediate politicization of every issue either, I don't see how a bunch of bloggers can do anything to stop the oil flow. If this was the White House's response, that would be a different story.
     
  19. zenMachine

    zenMachine Just another Onionhead

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  20. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

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    Whatever the cause of the off-shore explosion ... it was a real disaster in life, environment, life style and resources.

    Now, with that said .... am I am no expert in this matter .... but our (all humanity) addiction to pertoleum is far more significant, and not limited to fuel for our cars (significant as that is). If by some magic wave of the hand ... every car became electric today .... we would still need and consume enormous amounts of petroleum. It is difficult to name a product that is not either directly or indirectly, made from, manufactured by, or finished, with a petroleumor a petroleum by- product. Plastics, asphalt highways, fertilizers, all petro-chemical products ..... and the list is endless.

    I am a believer in wind and solar energy, as well as geo-thermal, and tides. I managed the design and construction of a very large solar arrray on a government facility .... I have hands-on experience. Solar is fantastic in Albuquerque, NM, which has a very high percentage of sunny days ... it is less efficient in Boston. I lived in New England, and fuel-oil was our our only source of heat ... and I was grateful for it when it was 25 degrees below zero. Now that I live in the west, the wind here is relentless and gratefully, is being made to be very useful; in Maine I was impressed with the tremendous tides ... I am unaware of any efforts to generate energy from the effect. Geo-thermal is also useful in the west. But as each of these resources is being made useful .... transmission lines are required to distribute the energy ... and petroleum is used in the manufacture of the cables.

    So many responders portray petroleum as the great evil. The quality of our lives would be vastly different if we did not have petroleum to enrich our lives ... in so many ways that do not include gasoline. The creator provided this resource to mankind as a blessing. We must become smarter and learn to use it more effectively, efficiently and cleaner and not spoil the environment by it's careless use.