Has anyone installed the enginer PHEV?

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by alevinemi, May 28, 2009.

  1. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    chenyj I have a technical question on the operation control of your Enginer product, you mention that " To prevent overcharging the OEM battery, the throughput will decrease in idle or stop. The converter current is at its maximum limit during driving "
    Now, how your equipment will detect if it is at idle or stop if your only connection points are HV at the HSD inverter side, ready line to make active your equipment and EV mode HECU lines?
     
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  2. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    Yes, good question. But I hope Jack's right and the converter does decrease throughput at idle because as I said, my stock battery didn't seem to fill at all over 15 minutes.
     
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  3. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    It's true. The DC/DC is programmed to monitor the HV bus voltage. While you drive, the bus voltage will drastically drop. Once that happens, the DC/DC will automatically move into a higher current output state.
     
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  4. Fibb222

    Fibb222 New Member

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    So is Joanna's converter different than mine in this regard?
     
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  5. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    It may be. When these devices are programmed and set in the factory, it may be off by a little bit, but within tolerences.

    Overall, all of the DC/DC converters should act just about the same.
     
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  6. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Is it there any documentation about this?
    Your affirmative response seems to be a little odd and do not give me the answer that I was looking at ......:confused:
     
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  7. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    It's documented, just not avaliable to the public...
     
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  8. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    I think that there are much to many verbal claims on this Enginer equipment that it can be classified as many "BS" because of lack of technical documentation and its amazing results.
    Were is the CEO of the USA ENGINER Co. or the chief engineering to address this type of questions?
     
  9. coulomb

    coulomb Junior Member

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    Perhaps because the converter is essentially a current limited constant voltage device. So at idle or stop, the HEV battery is at a fairly high voltage, say 235 V, and the converter output (nominally 240 V say) can push that to 240 V with a moderate current, say 3 A.

    When the car has traction demands, the HEV battery drops to perhaps 190 V, and even with maximum output (say 12 A), the converter can't push that to more than say 195 V. Hence, power output from the converter automatically is at its maximum when it is needed the most, via the mechanism of the HEV battery voltage.

    With careful choice of the converter's target voltage, the HEV won't get too much charge when idle, so the car computers won't attempt to "burn" "excess" charge, and the HEV won't lose life from too high a SOC.

    The current limit of the converter is simply set as high as the converter can safely handle, considering the capability of its components and its temperature. That seems to have been a bit of an issue, hopefully solved now, but it has nothing to do with the HEV battery. The HEV battery can easily handle the current from three converters (some 36 A), as long as the battery voltage stays below about 240 V.

    It is a very simple system, but simplicity is a virtue in itself.

    Is there any evidence to suggest that there is more to this?
     
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  10. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    If it makes you feel better.. I'm an authorized installer/field tech.
     
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  11. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    kiettyyy, If learning to dismantle (and put them back in the right way) few interior plastic shrouds, bolt down a metallic case to the car interior and all accessories together inside of it, tap a wire in line with the HECU and 2 wires in the battery case make you an "authorized installer", WOW.!!! Congratulations on your freshly acquired TITLE. Certainly, you can do what many others are incapable to do, because are mechanically inept.
    I had been dealing with Automotive Electronics since quite a few years now,( let me see how many grays I have in my head, a head full), I teach Automotive Electronics at College level as part of my curriculum beside other activities in the electronic's field in a daily basis and the 2004 Prius PHEV equipment that I built and drive since December 2006 by myself, was the first Prius converted to PHEV in the northeaster region of the USA by a private individual, CALCARS conversion #27, as a reference.
    -Now when a new company bring in the market this type of equipment, and shows up with a product that is really a prototype, with a lot of technical claims that fall back in their lap because of equipment malfunction or defective, it will be under the scrutiny of wise and experience eyes by many.
    - Beside, you are making the "propaganda" of being the CA "Field Technician" with out any experience on a product that it is really a prototype so far, tested by some adventurous innocents lured by a cheap equipment price, trying to give advice and technical information with out a verifiable source, that makes me wonder ........
    If you are up to, provide the PROPER TECHNICAL SUPPORT IN DEPTH as required or do not get involved.
     
  12. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    Alright buddy, sure, some of your claims are correct. There are MANY installers out there that do not have an EECS background that are mechanically capable of installing a kit.

    I happen to NOT be one of those types.

    I've been working with HV and LV applications in the fields of Robotics and Telecommunications for over 8 years.

    The problem about giving out such crucial and critical data about the kit is that indivduals that are NOT trained or have a background in electronics or high voltage applications may accidentally harm themselves.

    That's just not a good idea. You don't give a kid a knife and a power outlet and let them have at it. You have to make sure that they understand what they're working with.

    To add to that, I don't see Hymotion, Plug-in Supply or Plug-in Conversions releasing their intellectual property. All of these companies are in it for PROFIT. The CalCars conversion project is open source, so, all of the individuals that contributed gave up all of their IP. It's different out in these waters.

    About me spreading propaganda: What the hell.

    I haven't ONCE sent out one piece of false data. If anything, I was one of the indivudals that hopped on board with this kit and have been working with Jack from AutomotiveTech directly on improving critical components in the kit. Propoganda? I'm the user that scrutinized the kit before I was onboard. I'm one of the major reasons why they now work well.

    As an engineer, I'm a person that is VERY scrutinizing. I strive to make the BEST out of what I have. In this case, I'm working with a company that developed a LOW COST plug-in hybrid kit.

    I hope you see my claims from your perspective as many other users here on PC do.
     
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  13. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    You are the one who opened the can of worms; I did ask for a verifiable source of information on claims you made about the "Enginer" equipment.
     
  14. cabledave

    cabledave Member

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    Good grief another combative post from mrbigh:confused:, did you not have a good BM today???

    I just love waking up, drinking my coffee and reading nasty posts on what I thought was a pretty tame interest in my life.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
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  15. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    when the HEV( you mean the prius oem battery i guees? ) battery voltage drops to 190 volt you will automaticly drop out of ev mode..
    so that not a good point make the converter put out more current.
    what is the highstop voltage where it will go back to low current?
     
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  16. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    I think it was somewhere around 230v... I'd have to go check it again..

    That value is set in the factory or by a field tech. It will vary slightly from one DC/DC to another DC/DC.
     
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  17. coulomb

    coulomb Junior Member

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    Oh Ok, bad example then. Pick another voltage: 210 V?

    Yes, HEV pack = Prius OEM battery. Is that more standard terminology here?

    I guess you are asking what is the exact output voltage that the converters is set to. Good question; I don't know the answer. I've been assuming that it's around 240 V, but it may be up to 5 V (guess) higher or lower than that. It would be a fairly critical figure. If you set it too high, the OEM battery may get to too high a SOC, and the Prius would do wasteful things to burn off the extra charge to preserve the life of the battery. That could harm fuel economy, not improve it. If set too low, the Prius ECU won't favour EV mode enough, so the PHEV pack (the ThunderSkys) won't contribute their energy often enough, so on short trips, you may not get full advantage of them. (On longer trips, their energy will just be used over a longer period of time, and you still get the same fuel savings.)

    Many battery chemistries are temperature sensitive, so perhaps the ideal converter output voltage will vary with temperature. The converters may attempt to track OEM battery temperature, but I doubt it. So you have to find a compromise voltage that suits all likely OEM battery temperatures. That may mean that at typical temperatures, the voltage may not be the best one for fuel economy, though I'd expect the difference to be slight.
     
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  18. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    Unfortunately, the DC/DC converter only measures temperature in the case that the DC/DC is overheating to employ countermeasures to DC/DC.

    The DC/DC will stay at a low current state when the OEM battery hits about 230V. When it dips below that(while driving), the DC/DC will output at it's full current output level.

    Does that answer/supplement your question??
     
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  19. iraeise

    iraeise New Member

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    Hey everyone...
    I have one of the 4KW Enginer systems on order, and should have it in and running by the end of this month.
    I rode in a 2001 (4-door sedan) Prius that has it, and it registered 87 mpg.
    If you didn't go over the gas-motor-kick-in speed, it ran the whole way on electric.
    I think the battery voltage of the supplemental battery is slightly lower than the fully charged voltage of the OEM battery, so it seems to me that you couldn't over-charge it.
    Ira 732-438-6564 [email protected]
     
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  20. kiettyyyy

    kiettyyyy Plug-In Supply Engineer

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    The supplemental battery is MUCH lower in terms of voltage. It's sitting at 48v. The hybrid will not charge the supplemental PHEV battery. It's only chargable via the grid. Besides, the way the entire PHEV system connects to your vehicle isn't like the majority of the other PHEV conversions.

    There's a DC/DC converter sitting in between the OEM HV bus and the PHEV battery.

    BTW, those MPG numbers are pretty good!!!
     
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