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Head gasket replacement..... finally at the installation point

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Mellyman666, Oct 5, 2023.

  1. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    I removed my head gasket and am ready for re-installation. I did the piston tests to make sure none were broken (used gasket masters video) and my head looks really good and not warped at all. Still debating if I take it to a machine shop or not (doing the research because machine shops are not super common around me, and apparently if it's flat enough, machining isn't necessary. Thoughts?)
    Just wanted to ask you pros some questions about that!! For reference, I am using the gasket masters videos for this project. I cleaned all visible dirt on the major parts, but here are some questions I have before re-installing.

    1. I cleaned all metal parts on the EGR tubing/valve, but I wasn't able to take off the black plastic part. I'm too worried to ruin the screws as they're really hard to remove. so is there a special trick to remove this part? Is it even necessary to remove this part?

    2. When I removed the gasket I needed to scrap off the old `seal' that they put (I don't know what it's called, but the glue they put to hold the gaskets in place. What glue do I need to put when installing the new one? It says to refer to the manual, which I do not have, so if anyone has done it and knows what I need to put and where I could get it, that would be amazing!

    3. I broke one of the head bolts so I will be replacing them. I read a lot about it and read that some people replace everything while others replace every second one. Any recommendations on which is best?

    4. I also read that I should clean the manifold while I'm down here. Is there a special way to clean this and do I clean both the intake and exhaust? I live in Canada so a lot of rusty parts, and I don't think the dude who owned the car before me did much maintenance, so the tubes of the manifold are QUITE black. Do I need to clean and scrub until I get to metal? The intake I cleaned a little with brake cleaner but stopped and told myself I should maybe check if that's what I need.

    5. Laslty, I hear all kinds of things from people about how putting the timing chain back on is a horror and not doing it properly can cause the whole project to fail etc etc... This is stressing me out big time cause I'm a newbie and honestly have no experience in mechanic besides when I was young and getting screamed at by my dad for holding the light wrong. I took picture before removing it and brought the cam shaft to top dead center. I also noted where the little orange links on the chain were in relation to the cam shaft cranks. What exactly should I be worried about when putting it back and is there any dos or don'ts?


    I also wanted to take this time to thank each and every one of you who commented on my posts and helped me, without you guys I would never have been able to do this. It's not done yet and I'm really praying and stressing to make sure that once it's all reassembled that it actually starts. But either way, even if the project was a failure, A HUGE THANK YOU <3
     
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  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Easily fixed: Toyota Service Information and Where To Find It | PriusChat

    Another option: in the manual, you'll find how to measure how stretched the head bolts are, and which ones you can reuse and which ones you shouldn't.
     
  3. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Have it checked by an automotive machine shop. Ask some mechanics where one is located. Usually you want new valve seals as well. The head or the head bolts are very important and could force a second (third) job later.
    The egr cooler is the real issue, no need to disassemble the egr valve.

    End view of egr cooler, must be able to see light through it Prius v egr cooler honeycomb.jpeg Prius gen3 egr cooler and valve.jpeg

    Should be no sealant on head gasket except at one or two small spots. The timing chain cover is only sealant, no gasket. Timing Chain cover1.jpeg Timing chain orings, seal and alt repair.jpeg

    Every head bolt. Head bolts are critical! A loose head bolt will cause another hg fail. They are designed to stretch and could loosen or break if reused.

    Don’t worry about the exhaust- the intake is plastic and important to clean properly or replace.

    Timing, head bolts and connectors.
     
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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Candidly, your optimism both impresses and scares me. Thoughts:

    1. Did you get the broken head bolt out?

    2. As mentioned above, no goop on the head gasket. There is quite a bit spec'd for the timing chain cover. If you use the Toyota spec Form-In-Place Gasket Maker, it's cure time is insanely short, considering it must be neatly applied all 'round the perimeter, the water pump interface, a couple of small interior points, and at the horizontal split lines between upper oil pan, block and head. All of that in 3 minutes IIRC. Then the cover is supposed to be installed, all bolts (different diameters and torque values), within 15 minutes (from the time you first started applying the FIP gasket maker).

    Which is pretty much impossible outside of the factory. Gasket Masters use Permatex Ultra-Black Form-In-Place gasket maker, which has a much more leisurely cure time, food for thought.

    3. Regarding flatness of the head and block, this is checked with a machinist straight edge, and feeler gauges. You can maybe "ghetto" it, checking with what you've got, say a few near-new levels, lengths of slotted angle. Specs for that in attached.

    4. For DIY, I would just get all-new head bolts. They should have oil-soaked threads. Definitely follow the Repair manual torque sequence to the letter.

    FWIW, I've never taken on anything this daunting.
     
    #4 Mendel Leisk, Oct 5, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I've been feeling guilty, repeatedly posting the full engine section (it's about 5 MB's). Anyway, revised my signature, last line links to the full 3rd gen Repair Manual chapter on engine (posted in one location). Worth a careful read. On a phone turn it landscape to see signature.
     
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  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    The problem with the pdf repair manual excerpts is none of the blue hot links work. This can leave out important info that is online or hundreds of pages elsewhere in a pdf.

    IMG_3067.jpeg

    Plus Toyota writes these instructions for experienced mechanics who have access to a Master Mechanic in the dealer’s shop.

    When we see Gasketmasters (GM) do this job in four hours, we see a couple of guys who have done hundreds of these tasks and have figured out techniques for doing the work in the car while Toyota recommends pulling the engine. So the procedures are can be slightly different and GM takes shortcuts for efficiency.

    What may not be obvious is Gasketmasters has rebuilt heads ready if needed. They often carry complete engines to replace yours if they find a damaged block, piston or rod.

    With that said, advanced diy’ers do accomplish these repairs. Some repeat the work when the timing is not right or fight no starts usually caused by a disconnected cable or pvc hose.

    I would suggest finding some experienced help to put it back together with you.

    In Mendel’s 196 page excerpt here are a few items:
    P64 head inspection
    P84 hg installation and head bolts
    P14 part of of the timing chain installation
     
    #6 rjparker, Oct 5, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
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  7. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    Head bolt is coming out tomorrow- I was missing the transfer punch so needed to order it.

    I'm surprised there isn't much spec'd to put near head gasket as the edges of my block head (I think it's called that) and my cam shaft housing unit all had quite some sealant to be removed when I cleaned them.

    Will see if I will ghetto it or not haha on one hand I don't want to really do this again so getting it checked would be good, on the other hand I have a very big fear this will be a failure, and have been living in quite a fantasy land thinking someone who has absolutely no mechanic experience will end up pulling this off, hence ghetto would be better cause I'll feel less bad about the wasted money when I put everything back together and it doesn't turn on LOL
     
  8. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    Thank you for this!!
     
  9. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    You've given me enough reading material to last me all evening; going to nerd out on this now
     
  10. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    You've given me enough reading material to last me all evening; going to nerd out on this now

    Would a machine shop check all the tests specified in the manual? The warpage, the crack test etc or would I still need to do those afterwards?
     
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  11. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Yes an automotive machine shop would do the proper checks and repairs. Or they would tell you to get another head if there were cracks or severe warpages. You want an Automotive machine shop. Not just any machine shop which might be around.

    P84 of Excerpt about HG sealant at two spots

    Sealant carefully placed in 2 places on block
    IMG_3077.png

    Head_Gasket Installed on Block and then more sealant at same two spots, this time on gasket
    IMG_3078.png

    Sealant excess carefully removed
    IMG_3080.jpeg

    Frankly if there was more sealant than this on yours, somebody already changed the head_gasket in the past. If so, it is absolutely essential to have the head professionally rebuilt and new head bolts.
     
    #11 rjparker, Oct 5, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2023
  12. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    There were big spots of sealant in those locations, but a fine streak of it at some other places. There was also a very steady and uniform streak of what seemed to be sealant (it was rubbery and removed in one piece when i started scraping) on the underside of the cam shaft housing as well (if you turn it upside down, the camshaft housing has like these little indented grooved edges, and the sealant was removed from there.

    I read the sections in the repair manual, and more. the 4mm refers to how big my spot of sealant needs to be?
     
  13. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    See the pic above
    4 mm in diameter, 10-15 mm long
    (about 5/32" diameter by 1/2" long)
     
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  14. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    Head is currently at machine shop. In the mean time I'm reading and rereading the manual and watching videos and writing a step by step guide of what I will have to do to reinstall.

    One thing I have not yet found in the manual (have googled but am getting differen results) is the torque necessary and the sequence in which to tighten the 15 bearing cap bolts holding down the camshaft/valve assembly (the outer ones, NOT the black ones)

    I found the torque and for the 10 central black ones, found the sequence to remove the 15 outer ones, but no torque and no installation sequence in what I have found so far.

    Anyone know where I can get the info?

    Thanks :)
     
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  15. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    As suggested earlier, online TIS access is usually better for details but even then it can be tricky since you have to know what to search for. The “don’t know what you don’t know” thing can get in the way.

    The actual repair manual compilation is over 9000 pages long. Working online with hot links saves the day.

    Often mechanics really don’t “torque to spec” everything, relying on their “calibrated” hands, a kind of running joke on many videos. Eg they just tighten to a degree their experience suggests is ok on non-critical bolts.

    Perhaps the attached has what you need plus details on the timing_chain.
     

    Attached Files:

    #15 rjparker, Oct 6, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
  16. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    (See post above for camshaft installation)

    Most people usually buy a two day “Standard” TIS (Technical Information System) subscription and download every relevant portion to their hard disk or Google Drive (my choice) for future use.

    When online to TIS the hot links work so someone doing a big job over weeks might choose the month option.

    There is a learning curve here as well.

    TIS Link
    https://techinfo.toyota.com/techInfoPortal/appmanager/t3/ti?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=ti_home_page&goto=https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%3A443%2Fagent%2Fcustom-login-response%3Fstate%3Dvq2poK1OOJqUfcTRqKeE6e5pL50&original_request_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftechinfo.toyota.com%3A443%2F

    IMG_3087.jpeg
     
    #16 rjparker, Oct 6, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2023
  17. Mr. F

    Mr. F Active Member

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    Most of the FIPG material on the timing chain cover will be pressed out on its inside edge if the cover is torqued down within the 15 minute window. The gasket material only remains in the spots where the cover and the crankcase/block/head/camshaft housing do not mate perfectly, and only a small fraction of the material ends up remaining to fill in those imperfections.

    Not having the exact bead diameters will simply result in a little more or a little less material oozing out on the inside edge, so I wouldn't consider getting the beads the perfect thickness to be super critical.

    With a little preparation, I managed to get all the bolts torqued down in a little under 17 minutes this time. What helped:
    1. Valco Cinicnnatti 2" dispensing pliers for squeezing the material
    2. Using a uniform ~5 mm bead everywhere
    3. Sorting the bolts beforehand
    4. Memorizing where each bolt type goes
    5. Memorizing how much torque each bolt type takes
    6. Having two torque wrenches set to 26 Nm (with a 12 mm socket) and 51 Nm (with a 14 mm socket) ready
    7. Impact wrench or electric ratchet (set to auto mode) to drive the fasteners in
     
    #17 Mr. F, Oct 6, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2023
  18. Mellyman666

    Mellyman666 Junior Member

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    This had exactly what I needed. Ended up cross-referencing it with information I found online, and matches throughout 3 different information sources, so thank you!
     
  19. bdc101

    bdc101 Member

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    Did you do a dry run without FIPG to memorize which ones go where? I am doing a HG job as well and planning to just do the job once without FIPG so that the second time is perfect and fast.

    That tube dispensing gun, that's genius, I've never seen that before. You know if they have them at Walmart?
     
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Eric of South Main Auto makes a very convincing click-click sound while doing “informal” torquing. He does use a very pricey looking digital torque wrench on the more serious bolts/nuts.