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Help: 2005 Prius MIL But no ODBII DTC

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by butchbs1985, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    The title explains the issue. Here's the story:
    Car: 2005 Prius

    Wife went to Walgreens this morning and all was well. When she came out of Walgreens, she says she:
    - Started the car and all of the dash lights came on but it didn't start. (I'm assuming she didn't push the brake and it was in IG-On but I'm not sure).
    - She turned off the car
    - She turned on the car and "This big triangle is lit up". She also stated that it was difficult to turn the steering wheel.
    - I said, "Turn it off and on again" (Being an IT guy, it's habit). After she turned it on again, the "triangle" is there still but she was able to drive home. She said "the steering is working now" too.

    I plugged my Auto Enginuity scanner in to the ODBII port and get no codes but the MIL is still lit.

    Any ideas what to look for or something else to try? I'm going to test on my other car as soon as it is home just to eliminate the ODBII reader but it does indicate that it connects to the car.

    I already have a service appt. tomorrow morning but hope to have them only take care of the recall (floor mats) and the service campaign (hybrid water pump). I'd love to avoid a shop / diagnostic charge from the stealership.

    EDIT: Unfortunately no "Toyota Enhanced" scan tool software as it's incompatible with my legacy ODBII adapter. Time to upgrade I guess. That software would allow me to pull actual data from the hybrid system apparently if that is the issue.

    I guess it's worth noting that it was f'ing cold today. About 1 Degree F when all this went down though the car is warming up in my garage now.

    Thanks!
     
  2. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Update:
    - Tested the ODBII connector on my truck and it is working.
    - Realized that I could see if I'm getting data from the Prius by looking at the coolant temp. I turned the Prius on to do this and no more MIL???? I am also getting data from the ODBII which still shows no error codes.

    Surely not caused by cold??

    Are errors perhaps logged somewhere deeper that Toyota techs will be able to retrieve at the shop tomorrow?

    I also put the car back out in the cold to see if the issue returns. Currently 8 degrees F but not supposed to get colder.
     
  3. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Is the 12V battery ok?

    The freeze frame data for the DTC should be stored in memory, unless the 12V battery is problematic.

    On your AutoEnginuity, if you retrieve All Codes, they should come up, even weird stuff like P0000. I have the Proline connector + Toyota package.
     
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  4. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Toyota said that it appears that there was a 12V battery issue. They said that it tests OK but had low charge. Perhaps the cold.

    Additional items: "We haven't seen this car in two years so I'd like to talk to you about some things." (I do my own maintenance)

    - Your brakes are at about 5% left (Front and rear:
    Dealer wants $286 for the rear and $450 for the front includes new drums
    - "Engine water pump is starting to leak" $400 + tax

    I think that all of the above are a screw job personally. I'll look around on the forum to see if I'm correct. Anyone do the water pump replacement? What's involved?

    Seilerts,
    You have the Proline connector + Toyota. Does that allow you to perform the brake bleed procedure? If so, I'll do the brakes myself and upgrade my connector / software. Please respond ASAP!!! I might get a new toy!
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    mileage?
     
  6. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Mileage: 150K
    Maintenance schedule followed (other than replacing brakes).

    Based on other threads, it looks like I can definitely do the pump replacement myself. After looking at the Auto Enginuity site, it looks like I can do the brakes myself if I upgrade my scan interface. Just hoping for confirmation from someone.
     
  7. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Put it on a 2-4 Amp (preferably 2A) trickle charger overnight.

    Thus, any service/repair that they suggest is plausible!

    The water pump, if original, is reasonably at end of life. They tend to start weeping around the seal at 100K. The pump itself is, for once, pretty easy to remove, since there is not alternator, A/C, or power steering to get in the way. This is the time to do an entire coolant flush, including draining the coolant reservoir (thermos). See below.

    I would leave the rear brakes until they are metal to metal. They provide almost no stopping power anyway.

    On the front, what's wrong with compressing the piston to install new pads? And I wouldn't even bother getting the rotors turned, as new ones are dirt cheap. Try Conicelli (partznet.com) for factory Toyota parts, free shipping for orders over $100 and they sometimes run specials.

    I took screen shots for brake and powertrain actuation commands. I verified that it is possible to activate the coolant reservoir pump. I also recommend an AirLift, as you might as well exchange the inverter cooling loop fluid while you are getting messy, and an AirLift is essential for that job. Why stop at just AutoEnginuity for tool purchase? Point out to your wife that the dealer wants $1,000 for everything, but you can do it all for half and you get new tools to play with!!! . It should be possible to follow the service manual for the brake bleeding, but I have not tried it. Hopefully, it will not be necessary for you.

    AutoEnginuity brake actuation commands

    [​IMG]

    AutoEnginuity powertrain commands (coolant reservoir pump actuation command highlighted)

    [​IMG]
     
  8. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Thanks again Seilerts,

    What is an Airlift? Quickly googling it yields references to an air suspension company. I'll definitely order the updated interface and software upgrade for the Auto Enginuity device.
     
  9. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    The 2G inverter cooling system can be purged of air pretty easily, so if that is your only reason to buy an Airlift, I suggest that tool is unnecessary.

    It is possible to remove the CHRS relay and short the switched terminals in order to run the CHRS pump manually, and I have posted on how to do that.

    If you wish to replace the front brake pads yourself, I recommend that you disconnect the 12V battery prior to compressing the caliper pistons so that you do not induce DTC in the skid control ECU. Then there's no need to use diagnostic software to clear the skid control ECU of the logged codes. However if you plan to replace the brake fluid then the software would be useful.
     
  10. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Patrick,
    Is bleeding the ICE cooling system just as easy? I've done the inverter already but haven't flushed the engine. The pump that I need to replace is for the engine. The inverter system was done today due to the "Service Campaign".

    Thanks
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    No, the 2G engine coolant system is much more difficult due to the presence of the CHRS canister. I've posted in this forum my procedure to drain & replace engine coolant without having access to the Toyota diagnostic laptop (or equivalent). See my posts #22 and 42 here:
    http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-ii-...shooting/30813-changing-engine-coolant-3.html

    Bleeding the engine coolant system would benefit from a vacuum device, but that is not necessary if you are patient and willing to spend a couple of hours on the bleeding process. Good luck.
     
  12. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    C'mon Patrick, the man wants to buy some tools!

    The main issue with the ICE cooling system is the coolant heat storage tank (thermos). It is normally full when the car is off. Drain it, and you need some way to fill it back up. Patrick's method involves manually connecting the terminals to 12V. With the AutoEnginuity, it is a mouse-click.

    AirLift is made by UView and is available on Amazon. Using compressed air and the Venturi effect, it creates a vacuum in the cooling loop. When you reach sufficient vacuum, you close off the valve, remove your air hose, and hook up a hose to your coolant jug. Open the valve, and watch your cooling system get filled, without any air pockets. The process literally takes 2-3 minutes on most cars. Of course, the cooling loop on a Gen II Prius is unlike any car and takes longer due to the thermos, but using the AirLift means you won't get stuck in the endless loop of steps k,l,m,n,o in the manual. I use my AirLift on every car that needs a coolant fill.
     
  13. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    No problem, those who wish to buy those tools will do so. I'm just offering an alternative in case the OP and our other members wish to spend their discretionary funds in other areas. If one is not a professional mechanic and does not own multiple vehicles, then it may not be cost-effective to spend $$ on a tool used once every few years.
     
  14. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    I agree, if you don't have an air compressor and/or are on a tight budget, then it is good to know that it is possible to drain/refill the engine coolant without using special tools.

    I bought an AirLift ahead of replacing a failed IC pump after reading a post at Art's Automotive. This post also gives an overview of brake fluid exchange and brake system bleeding. Prius 30k Service
     
  15. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Thanks everyone. I'll no doubt be getting an Airlift as it just sounds too cool to pass up. All in, I'll be at about $500 - 600 even with the scan tool upgrade. Beats the heck out of the dealers price.