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Help converting turn signal to constant 12V

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by cproaudio, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I bought some switchbacks from autolumination.com It works great but there's a bug that drives me crazy. I ordered the AO (Amber Off) 7443 60LED switchbacks.

    Operation - When the white LED is powered and turn signal is activated, the white LED turns off and the amber LED flashes amber only.

    Problem - When white LED is not powered and the turn signal is activated, the LED flashes white before it changes to amber. The white LED flash is a fraction of a second.

    Remedy - much like bypassing nav lock (build a 555 timer circuit that mimics 1mph and feed it to the radio) I need to activate the white LED for the duration of turn signal flashing. The Amber LED will override the white LED so the white LED will not turn on.

    Help - I need help on converting a continuous pulse to constant 12v. the constant 12v must stop within 2 seconds after the last pulse stops. I've searched vigorously on this matter and have came up empty.

    Other notes - From my past experience, turn signal activation wire coming from the stalk will pulse at the same rate as the flasher. So, there's no constant on coming from the stalk. I could add a capacitor to a relay so that the relay stays energized during the turn signal pulse but I need a capacitor load/discharge calculator. A wrong size capacitor will either energize the relay too long and the white LED will turn on after the turn signal had stopped or the relay will click on and off like the turn signal. There's frequency to voltage converter but I haven't found one that can handle .5-2 cycles per second.
     
  2. RobH

    RobH Senior Member

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    I've got the same LEDs installed as front turn signals. After installing just one, I turned on the 4-way flashers to see what the new LED looked like. The LED is much more attention getting compared to the standard bulb. The momentary white flash makes the amber flash even more attention getting.

    So my call is don't fix it. The purpose of a turn indicator is to draw attention to an upcoming maneuver. The white flash is just extra attention.

    So what are you doing with the white LED? Mine aren't connected, but the idea is to use them as driving lights. I was going to have them controlled by the fog light switch and a few relays. Driving lights ON when the ignition is ON, headlights OFF, and fog light switch ON. Driving lights turn off during turn signal function.
     
  3. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I got 2 pairs. 1 for the front and 1 for the back. The one for the front will be used as DRL. I will be wiring them to a switch to work as either white DRL or yellow DRL. The turn signal will flash yellow either way. The one for the rear will work as added reverse light so I have 4 reverse lights instead of 2. I will add a switch for the rear to turn on the yellow as rear foglights. Again, turn signal will function with either white or yellow. The white flash before the yellow is driving me crazy and I want to get rid of it.
     
  4. PaJa

    PaJa Senior member

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    Does it mean, that the bulb has 2 polarities - one for flash operation and the second, reverse for stable white? It means you have to switch the ground signal instead of switching just "+" polarity.
     
  5. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    No, The way a regular 7443 bulb works is there's a low beam and a high beam. There are 3 wires to make the bulb work, ground, + for low beam and + for high beam. This is typically used in tail lights. the low beam is for parking light and high beam is for brake light. The way the switchbacks work is the low beam is white LEDs and the high beam is amber LEDs. Both white and amber LEDs have the same brightness. The white LEDs can be used as DRL and amber can be used as turn sginal. There are 2 types of switchbacks; amber white (AW) and amber off (AO). On an AW bulb, when the white is powered the white LEDs light up. When turn signal is activated, the bulb alternates between white LEDs and amber LESs. On an AO bulb, when the white is powered the white LEDs light up. When turn signal is activated, the white turns off and only amber flashes. To keep the OEM function, I chose AO bulbs. My problem is when the white LEDs are NOT powered and the turn signal is activated, each amber flash starts with white LED then quickly change to amber LED It's like 1/10 is white and 9/10 is amber. In order for the LEDs to flash 100% amber, the white LED must be powered. If I can convert the flash pulse to constant for the duration of the flash, I can feed that to the white LEDs and the flash will be 100% amber.
     
  6. PaJa

    PaJa Senior member

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    Thanks for the explanation of switchback LEDs, it was a little bit unclear on the lumination.com site. So it means you needed to change the original turn signal female connector from 2pins to 3 pins version.
    I think the usage of simple capacitor will not possible. For this small frequency the needed capacity will be to big.
    The turn signal stalk is GND based (it sends GND to flasher assembly). If I were you, I'd use the additional relay with some additional TTL logic and controlled via turn lights/hazard ground signals from flasher L55 (pin 8 - HAZ, pin 6 - TR, 5 -TL ). The active relay contact will send +12V to LEDs.
     
  7. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    Can you give me more information about this?
     
  8. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    Just connect +12v to the relay coil and the other end of the coil to the turn signal switch (you probably need to use two silicon diodes (cathode end with stripe towards the turn signal terminals) to isolate the left and right terminals. The relay contacts can then be used to supply constant 12v to your LEDs. The relay and diodes can be purchased at your nearby Radio Shack.

    JeffD
     
  9. PaJa

    PaJa Senior member

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    here is a draft from my young age memory when I played with TTL logic. The diode logic, as Jeff wrote, would work probably as well, but you will need 3 diodes to maintain the hazard switch functionality.
     

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  10. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I already how to wire up transistors and diodes. I meant to say give me some information about "(pin 8 - HAZ, pin 6 - TR, 5 -TL )" I need to know the plug location and wire color. BTW you would need 4 diodes to isolate left from right while hazard is on. I would rather convert pulse to constant because I already made harnesses for the lights so no cutting factory wires. Also if I use the convert pulse to constant method, I can do all the wiring at the light and not have to run wires from the taillight to underdash.
     
  11. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Well when I first wrote this up, I chose the the AW version, switch between Amber and White. However due to the internal makeup of the bulb, you are not going to suppres the White flash! the feed to the lamps is already DC, not PWM, so you are not going to gain anything by trying to build a circuit to suppress the flash. That is up to the manufacturer to redesign and build. I don't know why they went this route, but since I had intended this project to be DRL's, and not backup lights, you will have to live with the flash until the Switchback system makes a upgraded version to correct this minor flaw!!!
    My DRL mod has been running for about 2 months now. It works great. I am waiting untill I have to have the oil changed at the dealer, and see if they notice, and what they say!

    It could be an interesting conversation.
     
  12. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

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    I've been playing with the AO switchbacks for a while now. When I bought the bulbs a couple of months ago I also bought the sockets and empty wedge bulb bases http://autolumination.com/images/auto_bulbs/7443socket.jpg I made harnesses for the taillight sockets so I wouldn't have to cut any wires. I got them installed in my taillights and also tested them with the sockets I bought. I know for fact that when the white LED is energized, the amber will flash 100% amber. It's a really easy to remedy the white flash. I've been looking for this circuit for years. This was back when I was looking to convert turn signal pulse to constant voltage to activate side rear view cameras. Anyway I found my circuit. Just as I suspected. All I need is a capacitor, a resistor and a relay. Special Applications with SPDT Relays, Diagrams
     
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