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Help with loose steering/steering shaft bearing?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by BuyJapanese, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. BuyJapanese

    BuyJapanese Member

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    Hi folks, thanks in advance for any insights you can offer.

    I have an 05 Prius, ~335k miles. Ever since I've owned it, about 2 years, the steering has felt a little bit loose. Like, I'll be driving straight down the highway holding the wheel dead center, then (with no wind, but as if I'd been blown by a gust of wind) I'll be going a bit sideways and have to correct the steering. Then I'll have to correct the other way. That might sound like worn tie rod ends or rack & pinion, but I'm pretty sure it's not either of those things. Also, I have not noticed this problem associated with any uneven tire wear.

    I started taking apart the dash to look for problems inside. I was able to hold the lower/intermediate steering shaft steady with vise grips while turning the steering wheel a bit back and forth, which seemed to narrow the problem down to higher in the steering shaft. I kept taking things apart, and removed the top of the bearing in the steering shaft. That ended up showing me this (see pic), which definitely seems to be the problem. It looks like the teeth here are supposed to fit together, but they're just sitting on top of each other. I do see play at this point, while clamping the shaft below the bearing and trying to twist the shaft above the bearing, but it's not enough play to fit the teeth on the upper part into the slots on the lower part. Can anyone help me here...what is this supposed to look like, and either a) how do I get it there, or b) do I need a whole new bearing or something? I tried to torque the upper shaft while bracing the lower shaft, or even bracing the tires outside the car, but that didn't quite get me there. Part of the reason I came here instead of trying more torqueing is that it doesn't even look like the slots on the lower thingy are big enough to fit the teeth on the upper thingy, but maybe they are. Also, why are there 2 upper thingys stacked together?
     

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  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You have gone and found your steering shaft torque sensor, which is how the car's computer learns how hard you are turning the steering wheel, so it knows how much juice to send to the electric power steering motor to assist you, and in which direction.

    It isn't the cause of your looseness.

    Once you have reassembled it, you might need to go through the torque sensor recalibration procedure in the Repair Manual (more info).

    torq.png
     
    SFO likes this.
  3. BuyJapanese

    BuyJapanese Member

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    Awesome! Thanks for that. So does that mean that there is supposed to be a little bit of room for play between Detection Ring 2 and Detection Ring 3 in order for them to function? Because there is visible play between those rings without even trying all that hard while twisting the upper shaft, with the lower shaft left free (the only resistance being from the tires, which are on the ground). Put another way, the play that I can feel & see between Ring 2 and Ring 3 with everything disassembled looks very similar to the play I feel while driving down the highway.
     
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Exactly. The input shaft and the output shaft are not connected to each other except through the torsion bar (you can see the dotted lines in the drawing, showing a skinny bar that runs through the centers of both shafts).

    The torsion bar is made skinny enough that it twists a little bit on purpose under the force you put on the wheel. the harder you turn, the more it twists. The more it twists, the more those teeth shift position relative to each other, which gets measured by their effect on a magnetic field passing through, and that's how it measures how hard you are turning the wheel.

    If the torsion bar were so stiff that it could not twist, the sensor could not measure your torque.

    If you have ever used a simple beam torque wrench, imagine how useful it would (not) be if the handle were unable to bend. It's the same idea.

    You're going to have to button your torque sensor back up, possibly go through the recalibration, then continue looking elsewhere for the source of your looseness.

    Unless ... you think the joining of the input/output shafts to the torsion bar has actually become loose. I believe each shaft has a pin tightly driven through it (and the torsion bar inside) to join it solidly to the bar. Your photo appears to show the end of such a pin in ring 2.

    That kind of a joint generally doesn't wear, because it is tight enough not to have relative motion to begin with. I have never ever heard of that being something that happens to these. But a lot could happen in 335k miles. Could I rule it out completely? Maybe not.

    But given that the whole function of the sensor requires that joint to be twistable, you're going to have to somehow judge whether yours is more twistable than it should be. That might be a tall order, short of buying a new one and carefully comparing them, say with a vise and a torque wrench. Then if you decided there's really nothing wrong with it, you might at least have saved the effort of replacing it with the new one.

    The parts of the steering that are normally subject to wear are elsewhere. Elsewhere is still where I'd be focusing my attention, if it were up to me.
     
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  5. BuyJapanese

    BuyJapanese Member

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    Thanks for your help above, ChapmanF. It doesn't look/sound/feel to me like the input or output shafts are slipping relative to the torsion bar. I do wonder, though, if it's possible that the torsion bar itself has lost some springiness...as you say, a lot can happen in 335k miles. It feels like the upper shaft can wiggle sideways/rotationally more than it's supposed to before the lower shaft responds at all. Anyway, I'll put it all back together and pay more attention to how it feels while driving.

    The thing that I find odd about this is that it doesn't seem to have gotten worse or changed at all in the two years I've had this vehicle. I was mainly curious and had some free time the last few days, and was able to rule out a couple possibilities like worn steering elbows. Realistically, if I don't have a flash of insight about this, I'll probably be continuing to drive it with this old-age quirk until the vehicle disintegrates.
     
  6. PriusDadNoob

    PriusDadNoob Junior Member

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  7. BuyJapanese

    BuyJapanese Member

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    Nope. I just lived with it. I sold that Prius in 2022 (at a sizeable profit thanks to post-COVID used car market) to make room for my next project.

    Without an obvious fix, it wasn't bad enough for me to keep disassembling things even deeper looking for any slop or play. And it wasn't bad enough to be worth a $$$ fix at a shop for me. If it had been getting worse in the time I owned it, I'd have been more concerned.
     
  8. PriusDadNoob

    PriusDadNoob Junior Member

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    Very interesting. My latest theory it is that is the power steering module or possibly the power steering motor. It is providing too much power steering at faster speed so it feels loose.