Hmm. Where are those Enron fellas?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bigbaldcuban, Sep 14, 2004.

  1. bigbaldcuban

    bigbaldcuban New Member

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  2. springer

    springer New Member

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    It seems a bit extreme, but a few executions would get corrupt executives and politicians attention. I am totally for life in prison at hard labor for the likes of the Enron and the S&L guys along with anyone else who defrauds the people or the government in such extreme ways. It would make them think twice.

    On the other hand I am not against big business or people making millions of dollars, if the do it legally and ethically.

    an independent not a rabid party follower for any side
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Difference is, here in the good ol' U.S. of A., the corporate criminals own the government. They ain't gonna execute themselves.
     
  4. springer

    springer New Member

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    sorry you have such a pessimistic opinion of our country. I don't. We have problems, Lots of them but, If I truly felt the way you seem to, I would would leave the US. I am in no way sugesting that you or any one else who feels as you do leave. Thats one of the grerat things about the US you have all the right to feel that way and say that you do.

    I just don't think there is any place better. I dont feel all coraporations are evil nor do I feel all government is corupt. I do agree that there are too many that do fall into that catagory
     
  5. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    The U.S. (or more specifically, North Dakota) is certainly one of the best places in the world to live if you are rich and white. And since I am both, I am quite comfortable here. But I'd like it to also be a good place to live if you are African or American Indian, etc. So I continue to agitate for change.

    There are certainly places that treat the less-fortunate much better than we do. The Scandanavian countries for example. But since I'm not poor I don't need to go somewhere that health care is considered a right, rather than a privilege for the rich. And it took me 10 years to learn Spanish. I don't want to have to spend 25 learning Swedish. Even in Spain, health care is considered a right. But Spain is in the dark ages for a non-smoker. They smoke everywhere.

    It takes so much money to get elected that office-holders are nearly always either rich, or require the support of the rich. That effectively assures that laws and policies will favor the rich. The exceptions are few enough that they cannot change things. They are merely a safety valve for dissent.

    No, we are neither the best, nor the most democratic, nor the most humane or generous country. But if you are rich, white, English-speaking, and a non-smoker, this is probably the most comfortable place to live. (I mean, of course, ND. There are lots of places in the U.S. I'd never dream of living!)

    Oh!!! *hangs head in shame* I forgot to mention our good neighbors to the north. Canada is much more open and humane than the U.S. is, and I've considered moving to Winnipeg. But that's a couple hundred miles north of here, and that much colder in winter. Sometimes I regret not having been forced to go to Canada when I left college in 1967. Had I not gotten out of the draft I would have gone. Canada is so much more civilized than we are.
     
  6. rflagg

    rflagg Member

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    Yes, while Canada does have it's hangups as well, it may very well be a move for me, my prius, and my partner as well. At least in Toronto, marriage will be an option for us.

    Back to the subject at hand, whenever a company is being charged with fraud or using corporate funds, etc - their assets, every penny, should be immediately frozen. But again, the rich are in power as daniel notes, so that'll never happen.

    Also, I wish as a person that I could declare bankruptcy twice and then be allowed to use taxpayer money to help myself to whatever I need (in reference to US Airways) - it sickens me how the government panders to the 'poor poor' airline industry when so many flights travel with unsold seats.

    -m.
     
  7. Sun__Tzu

    Sun__Tzu New Member

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    Did you mean that the CEO and executives should have THEIR assets frozen? Since it would seem unfair to punish the grunt employees making normal salaries...

    But yeah, these guys should definitely get life in prison (I've seen the list of countries in the world that executes its citizens; trust me, we don't want to be on that list). And I don't mean "a white collar resort prison, no no, [they're] going to a Federal, pound-me-in-the-nice person prison."

    On a completely, totally unrelated note, Office Space was a great movie : )
     
  8. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    Stockholders should have lynching rights to keep management and the BoD in line.
     
  9. prius04

    prius04 New Member

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    Did you notice how Ken Lay and other executives of Enron and World Com have moved to Florida and are building giant mansions?

    Florida has laws protecting personal assets in the event of monetary judgments against felons. So they all move there so they won't lose it all when they go to court. I’m sure that’s why OJ moved there.

    By the way, does anyone know why the only significant rich person that has been tried so far after the corporate scandals, now 3 years out, is Martha Stewart? She was convicted of lying and the sum total of money that she might have acquired illegally would have been $200,000, though she was never convicted of that. She got 5 months.

    Maybe we should have a poll on this. How many think Kenny Boy will get zero time in jail? Remember, MILLIONS of dollars were lost by investors and employees via shoddy and illegal practices. (The illegal practices are not the issue, it's who did them that needs to be adjudicated, from what I understand.)

    My guess is 6 months and a couple of million fine. And if Bush is re-elected, a pardon to boot.
     
  10. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Millions??? I thought it was hundreds of millions.

    The courts do not decide which prison a convict goes to. The court issues a sentence, and the Bureau of Prisons decides where to send the convict. Normally this decision is based on whether the BOP considers the person likely to attempt escape, and how dangerous it thinks he is. A non-violent criminal (e.g., white collar) is likely to be sent to a "country club" prison. FPC Yankton (SD) has an ornamental picket fence about 2 1/2 feet high, the prisoners cross regular city streets unsupervised to go to the gym or the dining hall, and the periphery is not guarded. There are no gates: just wide breaks in the fence at entrances and street crossings. Prisoners live in dormitories. But it is overcrowded, and the food, once legendary for its excellent quality, is no longer highly regarded. A decade ago it was known as "Camp Yum-Yum," but not any longer.

    Sometimes a person is sent to a higher-level prison or to a prison far from where his loved ones live, as a punishment. (They deny it, but they do it!) But in any case, it's the BOP, not the courts, that decides.

    It will surprise me if Kenny ever sees the inside of a prison. But if he does, it will be some place a lot like Camp Yum Yum.
     
  11. aarons12

    aarons12 New Member

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    george carlin has been saying for years: if you want to stop the flow of drug money, terrorism money, etc, we just gotta hang a few white, middle class bankers...
     
  12. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aarons12\";p=\"40028)</div>
    When Carlos Salinas was President of Mexico, his brother Raul was Minister of Ports & Harbors. Raul regularly travelled to NYC on a false passport and deposited enormous quantities of cash in accounts at Citibank. This is all public knowledge. It is widely believed that the bank's highest authorities gave instructions that when this man appeared with cash, his deposits were to be accepted with no questions asked, in clear violation of U.S. law, which requires that questions be asked whenever anyone deposits very large quantities of cash.

    Citibank was clearly laundering money that it knew came from payoffs by drug traffickers to the highest Mexican authorities. The figure of $90 million to $100 million has been mentioned.

    On a related note, the city of Monterrey, Mexico, experienced phenominal industrial growth in the 20 years before 1995 (when I was there) and the common rumor is that that growth was financed by drug money. The Salinas brothers considered Monterrey their home.

    Anyway, everyone who knows anything about Mexico or banking knows that Citibank knowingly and happily laundered the Salinas drug-payoff money, and got away with it. Raul went to jail for ordering the murder of his own brother-in-law, but Citibank got its cut of the drug money.
     
  13. jimvitz

    jimvitz Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel\";p=\"39431)</div>
    If you don't believe this, go see the documentary "The Corporation".
     
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