Featured Honda Accord Hybrid Returns To U.S.

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Jeff N, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Here's a photo of the placement of the FC system. The FC stack is placed in the middle of the car for better balance and low CG. The smaller H2 tank is under the rear seat. the larger H2 tank and HV battery are in the trunk, behind the rear seat. Trunk is a decent size from what I can remember. It's also well shaped.
    16miraicomponents2.jpg
     
  2. UsedToLoveCars

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    "0-60 mph is expected to be in the low-7-second range,"

    wow, that's very very brisk. impressive.

    " The pack sits at the back of the trunk next to the rear seats and prevents them from folding down so there is no possibility of pass-through to the cabin area."

    boo. Come on guys, put it under the rear seat or something.

    "we did notice that hard acceleration on the freeway resulted in about a two-second delay between foot down and the resulting surge of power"

    that's just not safe not to mention annoying.
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    "we did notice that hard acceleration on the freeway resulted in about a two-second delay between foot down and the resulting surge of power"

    I believe the 2 second delay was a mental count, and is actually quite shorter than that.
    An automatic transmission in lock up will have a delay with a sudden call for more power. Same with turbos.
     
  4. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    It may annoy some people depending upon their driving style. The first generation Volt had a similar issue for the same reason but it much better in the 2016+ 2nd generation. Other people rarely plant the accelerator at highway speed (like me) or just adapt by planning ahead.

    I'm not sure what you mean.

    The 2 seconds is the time between flooring the accelerator and then the surge of power happens. There is a quiet and mild acceleration until the surge (probably electric motor assist via the hybrid battery), the gas engine spins up to high rpm, and the power surge hits.
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Even our awd hybrid lexus suffers from lag .... definately at least a second. But how often does a hybrid driver really put their foot into it anyway.
    .
     
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I suspect this is mostly an issue for passing on rural one lane highways although some drivers have happy foot on multi-lane freeways as well.

    Hybrids are entering a new era of being both efficient and faster so we will see fewer "hybrid drivers" and more average drivers in coming years. The Accord Hybrid and Malibu Hybrid prove you can have 182-212 HP with 0-60 in 7-8 seconds with excellent mpg in a mid-size car weighing ~3,500 pounds. The new gen 4 Camry Hybrid will probably do well also. We're likely to see a large increase in hybrid cars over the next decade.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Is that two seconds measured by a stop watch or by a mental count or simply what it felt like?
    People are reading the twp second delay as an absolute value when it may not be.
     
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  8. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    It was at least two seconds but was counted mentally. I've calibrated my mental time keeping and it runs a little conservative, so somewhere between 2-3 seconds. Of course, it's all a bit arbitrary because I'm counting the time between "foot to the floor" and "surge of acceleration" and where the acceleration surge kicks in is a bit arbitrary. In any case, there was a perceived two second delay. I repeated this 3 times over the span of a few minutes on a flat freeway to make sure the behavior was repeatable. I have not gone and timed similar behavior in all the competitive mid-size sedan models (hybrid or conventional) so I can't say how this compares. I tested this scenario because I knew it was an architectural weak point in their design like it was for the first generation Volt.
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    There are many excellent smart phone apps that can measure inertial or GPS or record video. Do it right next time.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    I tried using such an app during my previous test drive experience last year and it crapped out on me during the drive.

    I agree that I could have researched another app to use for the Accord Hybrid test drive but I got assigned to the review while I was away on vacation and focused my limited brain cells on learning about the car before the drive.

    In any case, it wouldn't have made all that much difference on this particular issue in this particular article, in my opinion. The issue here was the qualitative drive experience on the highway. Maybe a few people could make sense out of a 60-80 mph passing maneuver timing but for most it just isn't an interesting precision number unless maybe compared in a table against competitive cars and I didn't have that data. So, I tested it by a "seat of the pants" method with a conservative timing estimate for how long it took for stronger acceleration to kick in and I mentioned it briefly in a "first drive" review.

    Let's remember, this wasn't a longer period magazine review piece with one or more days spent in a dedicated vehicle and time spent on a track etc. This was a fixed route drive with auto writers sharing time in a bunch of cars for 20 miles in the late morning and then 20 miles in the early afternoon. I shared my ride and drive time with a guy writing for torquenews.com. If you compare my article with any of the others written at that event you will see it is generally more detailed and specific. I was not writing a national labs research report....

    Any good suggestions on a better iPhone app?
     
  11. Steve Lee

    Steve Lee Member

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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    second upholder was cool. we had those on our '89 chrysler minivan. too bad they don't use sliding rear door.
    will it ever come to the u.s.?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    This one worked: Ad Hoc 0-60 mph | PriusChat

    Back in January 2010 we had the 'brake pause' problem and at the time I tried using some of the recording G-meter apps. Hopefully they are better now because the "free" one I tested was somewhat lame. Regardless, plug in the vehicle weight and do a 0-max acceleration and they can give some useful metrics. I later used: OFFER: document brake pause problem | PriusChat

    I've also been impressed by the video quality Robert Llewellyn achieves with what appears to be 'Go Pro' cameras. Let me suggest experimenting with a clamp to the head-rest or 'bungee cord' to hold it fixed 'looking over the driver's shoulder.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I doubt it . . . who'd want a 6 seater hybrid anyway. Wait a minute, I would !

    I doubt the low profile could support a decent sliding rear door though
    .
     
  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Given the sales of the Prius v, it might not. It does look pretty cool. The 3rd row is a bit tight but good for emergency use. The 2nd cupholder is pretty cool. There's also a rear moonroof over the 3rd row for some extra light (you can see it when the person opens the hatch).
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    initially - i'd forgotten 3 significant elements of Honda's hybrid history - so - this news of new offerings (clarity plugin & accord hybrid ) was receiced by me with excited anticipation. Then i remembered .... HONDA killing off their Gen1 Insight - & only selling it in 7 or 8 states or so. They claimed no one wanted them - despite high fuel costs during that era. Really ? 60mpg+ ? Ok sure. Yet honda sold everyone they made - no problem. Then there was the traction pack battery debacle. Honda refused to admit they'd over-programmed their cells to run so frequently, that tons of their traction packs were prematurely dying, & not making it to carb's 100-150k minimum warranty period. So mileage started dumping, as the ice had to run harder to compensate for the greater work load. A class action lawsuit insued, because Honda didn't want to make it right on their own. So much for Goodwill. Lastly - to throw a little icing on Honda's cake - their so called prius killer .... the Gen II Insight ... boy, were they ever wrong about that. Is it just me? Or is Honda presuming their prospective audience is so dense that no one remembers their hybrid history. One may want to seriously consider those things before racing out to be first in line. Prius v sales? that might be their least consideration. Just sayin'

    .
     
    #36 hill, Jul 27, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2016
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Honda's hybrid rep could be their new models' toughest hurdle. It could be part of the reason they took a hiatus with the Accord hybrid, and delayed the introduction of any of their one motor hybrids. The Jazz may already have had issues with its transmission. With low gas prices in the US, Honda might actually be taking it slow on the hybrid front.

    At least for the most part. I think nearly everyone having a midsize hybrid sedan put pressure on them to have the Accord available. Then Toyota rushing to market with the Mirai was pressure to get their next Clarity out. The BEV and PHEV versions will reduce the cost of that to them.

    Honda might have had no trouble selling the original Insight, but that is not a good thing if it cost them more to make than the sales price. It was an all aluminum monocoupe. That isn't easy or cheap to make. Even now, it is only seen in luxury or high end sports car brands. There was also some diesel emission controls on the car to handle the lean burn mode. The battery problems also started with the Insight.

    In hindsight, Honda should have skipped on the Insight2 and just brought over the Fit hybrid.
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Indeed. At one point, Toyota did consider an all-aluminium monocoque for the Prius but decided against it because of production cost.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's why i'll give honda some time before taking a serious look. right or wrong, these things take 5-10 years to prove themselves out. it's not enough to come the gate with the best mpg's in class according to epa.
     
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