Honda Accord PHEV: 115 MPGe for $39,780

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by lensovet, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    PiP does this, but it sounds like you're saying - "why can't someone else do this?". So why not the PiP.
    50mpg for a mid sized car's weight/mass - while still having some amount of power all the while being affordable, and semi roomy is stretching the boundary of physics. We toy with the idea of adding an aftermarket plugin kit onto our mid sized awd SUV hybrid. But a kit with 20 miles range is 5 figures for a ride that big. And the hybrid suv's in that size are lucky to get 30mpg in charge sustain mode, due to their extra mass/weight. It's give and take. What ever you need that goes beyond ideal boundaries simply means you give up something else.
    .
     
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  2. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Except that the HAPH is a family sedan so you would expect that someone who's interested in an Accord and interested in a plug-in may find the space a bit lacking (Remember the 1G GSh? It only had 7.5 cu ft with no folding seat and that was tiny. It was repackaged midway through the first gen to gain a cu ft or two). However, the thing going for it was that it was a "sporty" hybrid with power of a V8 and fuel economy of a 4.

    The HAPH will have to rely on the ability to plug it in and the 13 mile range (that's the blended EPA range, right?) along with its technology as I assume it comes fully loaded with LDW, BSM and LaneWatch.

    Plus, I think it looks pretty handsome and will give the Fusion Energi a run for its money.
     
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  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    With regenerative braking it might even do well in the city.
     
  4. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Yes, because an Accord is a more substantial overall car than a regular Prius. If I was on a looong road trip up mountains and such, I'd rather be in an Accord than a Prius. Don't take me wrong, the Prius is very good all around the Bay Area, but when I start climbing mountains over bumpy roads, it's just ok at that point, not stellar.
     
  5. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    True for all the family sedan hybrids, even more so the PHEV family sedans. Comfortable for five driving around, great mileage, good styling. That's what folks would be buying.

    Demographic for hybrids is older so fine for road trips for a couple visiting the kids vs. taking the kids on road trip.

    W0nder what a Sienna hybrid would do? 30 mpg? Now there's a family hauler.
     
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    My brother has a 1G TCH, trunk looks small, I think its around 10 cu ft. Trunk has never been a problem, but his wife has a rav4. The accord phev has a little more trouble, but the biggest thing is really aer miles versus fusion energi and volt, and price compared to prius phv and c-max energi

    yep
     
  7. david_cary

    david_cary Junior Member

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    Mazda 6 diesel might be alright but since it isn't available in the US, I'll keep looking.

    Cargo space is important in a sedan. Why wouldn't it be?

    Some people want a sedan but still like to take the family on a road trip. Otherwise, you would just buy a volt. The AER and tax credit make it a winner. Obviously, you shop an Accord or Fusion for the space and cargo is a big part of that.

    While the prius has great mileage, you have to realize that it can't compare in acceleration and road manners to a "normal" modern sedan.
     
  8. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    No you would shop other cars if space and cargo are main factors. Fusion is smaller sedan to begin with and you'd shop a Taurus for space and cargo. CrossTour vs. Accord in the Honda line.

    Mileage is the key with hybrids, even more with PHEV's. Cargo is necessarily going to be last on the list due to the battery and fuel tank requirements.
     
  9. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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  10. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    why would we take a cooler? we were going down into the grand canyon. we needed supplies to go down into the canyon and back up, a cooler wouldn't really help us. it was basically 4 large camping backpacks and some additional stuff. the boots were on our feet…???

    the camry hybrid seat does fold down and also has a center passthrough for skis.

    seriously, this car would have made some sense 5-8 years ago. today?? not so much.

    EDIT: and again, what's up with this 3 people with skis? i don't know what car you drive, but have you been inside a gen 3 prius? the rear seat is 60/40, you can easily have 4 people and skis. and if you have short people, like some of my female friends, you don't even need to fold down the seats at all.
     
  11. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    Food and liquids. I suppose one could fit four day packs in the back but not really a "camping trip". Might fit two back packs for two people for a few days trip in the back...might fit...that would be about it.
    It's max that fits in a Prius III for day ski trip without resorting to outside storage.
    2012 Prius III/3 with solar roof.

    Back to topic, no one buys a hybrid for the "cargo" space. One pick the mileage one wants and works around the necessarily small cargo space on hybrids and PHEV's
     
  12. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    No one ever said that people buy hybrids or plug-ins for cargo space. What was said was that people who buy hybrids are willing to put up with some compromises, and a trunk that fits 4 shopping bags in a car that costs $40k doesn't seem like a compromise that a lot of people would be willing to make. Again, compared to a PiP, you have
    -a fifth (?) of the cargo space with no rear-seat fold-down
    -roughly same AER
    -roughly same passenger space
    -$7k higher price
    I'm having a hard time justifying this car. For example, if cost less than a Prius, I'd say okay, some people want a sedan and are willing to sacrifice some space so they can save some cash. Or if it had double the AER, I'd say okay, some people find 10 miles insufficient and want space for 5 passengers, so they're willing to compromise on cargo space.
    But this car only has compromises. There are no redeeming factors, unless you're in love with Honda or hate hatchbacks for some reason. That was my original point, which still stands.
     
  13. david_cary

    david_cary Junior Member

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    The redeeming factor is power.

    While I obviously haven't driven one, I am quite sure the handling and noise in the cabin will be improvements over the Gen III.

    Of course cargo area is an issue with hybrids but it is better to have both - ie Prius. One would have thought when Honda was bringing out a PHEV before the hybrid in a new generation vehicle, that they had found a more elegant place for the battery.

    My criteria - ideally a plug in. Must be able to take primary role for 2 car family - car seat, space for dog. Ideally better mileage than my HCH-II. We have a vacation house that we go to 15 times a year and in laws another 5 or 10 that live 150 miles away so cargo space is important. More power than HCH-II when a/c on (my primary complaint) - not hard to do.

    The PIP obviously fits the bill but I really wanted something better - more luxury/power/handling. I'd like it nice enough that we take it everywhere. Right now, we take the Accord much of the time because it is more comfortable.
     
  14. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    You have more passenger room, a more comfortable car, a much better looking car, a car that gets better mileage (in your comparison), would be why you would buy an Accord PHEV vs. a Prius PHE. A Fusion Energi over a CMAX Energi would be on good looks only.
     
  15. spwolf

    spwolf Senior Member

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    Fusion Energi will have more passanger room, more comfortable car, much better looking car, and probably better real life mpg than CMAX too.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  17. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Fusion is certainly a much nicer interior.
    How does Accord get better mileage than PHV? Due to the extra two miles of range? Good luck with that.
     
  18. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Crossover on EPA gas from combined is about 60 miles. Trips of less than 60 miles will use less gas in the accord phev than the prius phv. If we include the extra electricity in mpge we get a crossover of 42 miles.

    Assume the driver uses their push buttons well and we should be using electric on city miles and gas on highway. Here the prius phv can use its electricity better and the milage crossover drops.

    But Lets Say something more realistic. Trips are skewed with some long trips. Here we can probably assume electric miles get used, and the rest are highway miles. Here the cars will use about the same amount of gasoline in 17,000 miles a year, or if you do GGE of electricity 14,000 miles. Accord phev looks pretty good here.

    That is until you look at price and cargo. Really the amount of gas difference is very small, even if you drove exactly all electric in the accord. Those that want to increase the number and want cargo may jump to the c-max energi.
     
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  19. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Funny, I happen to like the cargo space in the Prius which is why I bought one (The TCH is the only full hybrid sedan to have a folding rear seat. If I wanted cargo space of a regular car + hybrid, the Prius was the only choice).


    And what if they don't want a fullsize car? Most midsize cars are fairly large (The last gen Accord was classified as "large car" by the EPA). I believe they shrunk it back to midsize for this generation.

    And there's always the crowd that only wants sedans for various reasons and won't go with a hatched vehicle (SUV, wagon, hatchback).
     
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  20. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    lol, I was just referring to ProximalSuns' claim that supposedly no one buys cars for cargo. i had never made that claim, though, as you point out, that doesn't mean that there aren't people that do.
    also, HyCam does have fold-down seats (it didn't a generation ago).
     
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