Honda plans to settle Civic Hybrid mileage suit out of court. Is it a fair deal?

"The window sticker showed EPA estimates of 49 city and 51 highway, though the EPA's revised 2008 rating sits at 40 city and 45 highway."

I say "no" because the EPA is the one that creates those numbers. The EPA posts mileages for all cars, and those are the numbers that go on the window stickers of new cars. Honda did not create those numbers; Honda was just the messenger.

 

Actually Honda did create those numbers, because the manufacturers actually perform the tests. EPA only validates a percentage of those tests. However, it is to the EPA testing procedure and specified driving cycles, and, because fuel economy varies so much with conditions and driving demand, manufacturers are not allowed to advertise any other figures.

It's certainly possible to optimize a vehicle for a certain test, and there are certainly incentives for doing so. However, I would expect that all vehicles are so optimized. (There's a distinct trend toward 6-speed manual gearboxes in the EU, I suspect because the test protocol specifies which gear to use at which point in the driving cycle, using gears 1-3 and 'highest available', where I think the driver would actually use gear 6 very rarely indeed.)

 

In engineering we talk about 'managing user expectations' to avoid such problems. It doesn't always work. In my case, the first fill up of our 2003 Prius showed 39 MPG and I briefly thought about taking the car back. Instead, it became the first car point of this mph vs MPG chart:

The plane flight out to pickup the car was the first data point on the graph.

So when someone complains about their Prius performance, I use either a detailed, 1.5L graph or the 1.8L graph of mph vs MPG. I share the protocol and ask them to measure their performance. Once they realize their car is not 'broke,' they are on the path to better Prius mileage. The protocol is:

• warm-up car at least 20-30 minutes
• flat, circular loop like a bypass or parking lot
• use cruise control to hold the speed
• one practice loop, reset the trip meter
• drive at least 10 miles and measure the result

This is just applied engineering that anyone can handle.

Bob Wilson

 

I agree. They should sue the EPA.

 

Completely absurd. At least the terms of the settlement are pretty much in Honda's favor.

 

Hmm...so Honda admits to no wrong doing, but they are settling out of court? Honda obviously just wants to avoid negative publicity. I'm kind of suprised they are settling out of court. Because even an out of court settlement is going to become publicity, as witnessed by the news showing up here.

You'd think Honda would stand firm, either keep it tied up in court forever OR simply win the case. If Honda honestly followed EPA guidelines, I don't see how they could lose. All automakers use EPA estimates in their advertising and "your mileage may vary" is attached to all statements.

In this day and age do people really buy cars expecting to get the EPA rating? With so many variables, weather condition, roads, incline of roads, actual commute time of trips, fuel additives and quality...wind, rain and snow...the realization that EPA figures are a controlled test, while life is not, leads me to NOT expect I will often get the EPA numbers for a vehicle.

I know post 2008 the EPA revised the method. New numbers are more realistic. Which I think is a good thing.

Unless you are buying the absolute genesis of a model, the internet offers so much information. Especially for automobiles like Hybrids and other higher MPG ICE cars like The Fit, Yaris and others...it takes very little time to investigate owners forums and other websites to get an idea what real world mileage is really like.

If you bought a Honda Civic Hybrid expecting to get 49 miles to the gallon and then only got 34...I can see where you'd be disappointed. If you bought a Honda Civic Hybrid expecting to get 40 mpg then only got 34, I'd wonder about tire inflation, the overall condition of the car and variables in driving style and commute.

 

I owned a 03 Civic Hybrid for almost five years before getting the Prius in 07. My lifetime mileage for the complete time of ownership was about 38 miles per gallon. That was not as good as advertised, but plenty good enough for me. Recently, I got the notice of the class action suit. I just filed it away in my 03 Civic Hybrid record book.

By the way, my lifetime mileage for the Prius so far is 42.85 mpg.

 

They would probably win. But how long would that take, and what kind of legal fees would be racked up?

If you look at the settlement terms, most of the money they're paying out is going to come right back to them.

 

Great . . . and with each bogus suit (and even legit ones), the insurance industry gets more ammo for tort reform. So when some doctor, contractor, manufacturer causes you serious / actual damages, you won't be able to get a foot into the court's door. Congrat's

.

 

I have a degree of paranoia, but actually I think if there is nothing wrong with the way Honda's EPA figures were reached? Then I think there is no way they could lose, I don't think it would take that long, and it should be an easy case.

Yes, the settlement as it is now structured is cake for Honda, but it's still going to result in some negative headlines. Plus I think upset owners.

If I was Honda I'd fight this fight, easily...unless (here's my paranoia) I felt I had something to hide about how we reached and obtained the EPA numbers we were given.

 

If Honda can be shown to have submitted incorrect testing results to the EPA, they owe consumers. If that is not the case, then this is just another example of americans inability to understand the difference between a synthetic test and any one's individual's driving habits and circumstances. It would also be a failure to read the EPA sticker, which shows a RANGE of mpg meant to encompass around 90% of experiences.

Heck, even a typical american bozo should be able to fathom that if their driving is not split 55:45 between city and highway, the single EPA number is unlikely to mirror their results.

Sheesh

 

IMO this decision is scum in the water for the scum-sucking class-actionists. Next up... there's no way that the early Gen 2 Prius' were able to get the original EPA values yet Toyota continued to advertise 51 and 60 mpg all over their ads.

But imagine what GM is thinking about this suit and the settlement....230 MPG in the Volt???. The scum-sucking class-actionists already have the papers ready to be filed.