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Horrible engine noise in P, D, B, and R, but not N

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by kpmartin, Jun 6, 2020.

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  1. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    My 2005 Prius with over 200K just started making this dreadful noise:


    Running rough and loss of power, I thought maybe the cat died... I limped it home. (It didn't sounds as bad on the road with the hood closed.) Very anemic, power-wise. Batteries not really charging... were very low.

    It's not running well enough for my local exhaust guy to check the cat out.

    Things I tried today:

    - New plugs (they looked rough with white buildup, but not horrible)
    - New PVC (probably didn't need it as the old one still rattled)
    - Cleaned mass air flow
    - Tried disabling one coil at a time (always made it worse... never stayed the same)
    - Ran without air filter (it was a little dirty, so I let it run free... no change)
    - Oil looks like oil... no white or froth or mix-y lines... just oil
    - Coolant appears normal
    - No colored smoke (or visible exhaust of any kind). Occasionally smells like eggs (another reason I suspected cat).

    It had all four misfire codes, and codes for failing cat, and then codes for shutting down after all the monkeying with the coils. I erased the codes hoping to get a fresh batch but they've not returned over the 20 minutes of running. But it's still sounding like in that video.

    The video was while in park. In neutral, it's running quite nicely.

    This seems like maybe something to do with charging? Or possibly transmission?

    Any thoughts?
     
    #1 kpmartin, Jun 6, 2020
  2. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    Its possible the transaxle can not sync with the engine rpms for a variety of reasons. Since you did not report hybrid codes it could be engine related. Head gasket comes to mind with the misfires.
     
    #2 rjparker, Jun 6, 2020
  3. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Just took it around the block and got some codes.... only P0304. I only have a simple ELM Wi-Fi code reader, unfortunately.

    Oh, and four new OEM Denso ignition coils about two years ago.
     
    #3 kpmartin, Jun 6, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2020
  4. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Sounds like some of the misfire causes you haven't looked into yet are fuel pump pressure and fuel injectors.

    What were the codes that you call "codes for failing cat"? It helps us more to report the actual codes.

    While "head gasket" can come to mine with misfires, so can ... all of the other causes of gasoline engine misfires throughout history. Sometimes we like to skip right over diagnosis to get to worst-case scenarios.

    As this article will remind you, sometimes the very simplest things can make an engine misfire so badly it sounds destroyed. A PriusChat member, astrolink, some years ago, was ready to trade another car in; turned out that one needed clean injectors.

    A college classmate of mine and her brother appeared in my driveway unexpected one summer because they were on a cross-country trip and suddenly their Bug sounded like the engine was going to shake itself onto the street. Turned out it needed plug wires.

    Don't overlook the basics.
     
    #4 ChapmanF, Jun 6, 2020
  5. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Yeah, I regretted clearing the codes right when I did it. I'll drive it more tomorrow to fire up more codes... I'm sure they'll show.

    I did read that article just a few minutes ago! :)

    I did clean injectors about 22 months ago. I have not looked at fuel pump pressure yet. Can I trust what the ODBII tells me or do I need to get special tools? Do you know what a good range would be?
     
    #5 kpmartin, Jun 6, 2020
  6. rjparker

    rjparker Tu Humilde Sirviente

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    As suggested earlier, any misfire can cause transaxle noise. You said the plugs were new and you tried to eliminate the injectors.

    Your elm obd2 is just a hardware interface for software which is the key. Apps like Dr Prius, Car Scanner, or Torque (Android only) will give you codes if they exist. However some do not come back immediately and even head gaskets will sometimes hide intermittently. The main difference between free scanners and Techstream is the ability to write data and perform procedures.

    What I like to suggest is spend a few dollars for a dealer diagnosis and then fix it any way you wish. Finally some of our chaps are too often looking for the easy miracle fix (even when we have already shotgunned those suspects) while owners may risk hydro locking the engine.
     
    #6 rjparker, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    May be worth checking your oil for signs of coolant - again, just to be sure.
    Happens only rarely in G2s - but it DOES happen.
     
    #7 ETC(SS), Jun 8, 2020
  8. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    I've got a set of reconditioned fuel injectors on their way. I cleaned them myself when I did them, and since it was my first time, and since it's been a couple of years, it seems worth trying.

    I can't remember... what do I lube the rings with when replacing those?
     
    #8 kpmartin, Jun 15, 2020
  9. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    P0304 is cyl 4 missfire.

    It sounds like bad coil on plug cop. You can test that by using a new cop and moving that from cyl to cyl but we know its complaing about #4.

    Also Really common to get an oil leak into the spark plug well because the gasket fails. Well will fill up with oil. very very common and foul the cop. I would have looked in the spark plug hole before doing anything and see if there's oil in the bottom of the well that will foul the cop. Like my picture.

    Or...the car has seen a few engine oil so low it throws a check engine light because it eats oil and then has incurred engine damage. See alot of those on here as no one checks there oil anymore especially if "dealer maintained".

    Get a small mirror and flashlight and pull the cops out and see if any oil in the well.Then go to the dealer and buy a new cop and replace cycl #4 cop.

    Btw, a roving moving missfire code that jumps around cylinders is a blown bottom end engine.
     
    #9 edthefox5, Jun 18, 2020
  10. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    OK! I've swapped out the injectors. The old ones looked pretty bad to my eye. Took it out for a drive and, while the engine seems to be running smoothly, I'm encountering the horrible noise/vibration when under load; for example, when stationary and charging HV, or when driving (especially accelerating).

    I have some codes now. Prior to the injector swap I'd run/driven the car little. During the injector swap I ran a couple times for testing. When all done, I had:
    • P0A0F
    • P3190
    • P300, P301, P303, P304
    I cleared the codes and after the drive described above, I had only a pending P304.

    Other notes:
    • The 12V drained (I presume because I left my ODB-II plugged in), so that had been recharged prior to the injector swap.
    • Since this went downhill (fairly suddenly) the HV has had a hard time charging and has remained pretty low.
    • It's got a bit over 200K miles (I realized I hadn't mentioned that)
    • Part of the post-cat exhaust has rusted and fallen off
    Any thoughts?
     
    #10 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
  11. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Here's what the old injectors looked like
     

    Attached Files:

    #11 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
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  12. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Using the process here I'm seeing the 12V reading 11.7V; slightly outside the 12.6 and 11.9 noted, and not fluctuating.
     
    #12 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2020
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, that's living on the edge. how old is it?
     
    #13 bisco, Jun 20, 2020
  14. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    2005 with i think about 208K on it.
     
    #14 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
  15. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    OK, I closed out the afternoon cleaning the throttle body which was a bit dirty but not horrible, and there was a little oil in the bottom... got that mopped up.

    Took it for another drive; seemed even smoother, but under load it's still shaking like a Warner Brothers cartoon jalopy. Babied it for a few miles and got the EV back up to about 75%.
     
    #15 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how old is the 12v?
     
    #16 bisco, Jun 20, 2020
  17. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    So the app I'm using (Car Scanner on iOS) allows me to record everything from the ODB-II and review it later. I don't really know what I'm talking about, but the Mass Air Flow sensor reading seems weird to me... shouldn't it have some fluctuation while I'm driving?
     

    Attached Files:

    #17 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    are the motor mounts okay?
     
    #18 bisco, Jun 20, 2020
  19. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Sorry... I've not replaced it in the 4 or so years I've owned it. No idea before me... salvage vehicle.
     
    #19 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
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  20. kpmartin

    kpmartin Junior Member

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    Good question... I will check that out tomorrow.
     
    #20 kpmartin, Jun 20, 2020
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