House call: 2005 Prius

FYI, I sent the client this note:
* * * *
Summary:

1. 12.05 V - the battery voltage range should be between 11.95 and 12.85 V. At 120.05 V, the battery is servicable but weak. Iy will probably be OK this summer but come the Fall, the cold weather can lead to problems. Priority low.
   
2. Throttle plate - did not feel 'sticky' but the discoloration around the edges suggest cleaning is probably desirable. It tends to get worse in humid conditions. Priority low.
3. Inverter pump - working fine but there was a Toyota recall for the pump. Priority low, check with Toyota Service Center on recall.
4. Brake fluid level - 1/4" low, probably needs topping off. Priority low but a cheap fix. Owner's manual identifies the type and it is a $10 fix. Priority medium.
   
5. miniVCI - after clearing, the A/C code came back right away. This is a persistent, hard failure. However, earlier stored codes need to be check. Given they showed up after the 12V ground disconnect, they should be checked and considered 'real'. We cleared them using miniVCI and that is very likely to reoccur. Research them and treat them seriously. Priority medium.
   
6. traction battery - for the couple of minutes we looked, no serious problem. The minimum voltage module pair and maximum voltage pair changed and was about 0.20 V different. The threshold is 0.30 V. A failing module will be 1.2 V (the voltage of a single NiMH cell) and there is no evidence of that problem. No problem, priority very low.
7. oil in exhaust pipe - along with oil loss, very bad. The O{2} sensors can't work if coated nor can the catalytic converter. Possible faults: leaking exhaust valve seal; leaking or broken piston ring, and/or; leaking intake valve. This needs to be diagnosed and any quality shop should be able to handle it. At a minimum, the engine cylinder head needs to be taken off and valves and guides reworked. Called a valve job, 3d party mechanics can handle but we're talking $1,000-2,000. Get three estimates. If worn or broken piston ring(s), the engine has to be rebuilt, $2,000-2,500. Repaired, car should be good for 3-6 years. Priority high . . . this summer would be good.

Turning this car into a dealer to buy a new 2016 Prius would be a fair option (and we both hate Bill Penny.) I would recommend visiting both Bill Penny or the Toyota dealer in Fayetteville to 'kick the tires.' Bill Penny is in SouthEast Toyota region which is notorious anti-Prius. Fayetteville is just simple ignorance but they are in the Cincinnati region, less bad. I would recommend test drives in:

• Ask to look at 2-3 year old Prius (2013-2015 are excellent years) - these have the 1.8L engine and can provide great value for the money. I would use Ebay to see what completed sale prices have been and that should be your guide. It is bigger with somewhat better mileage especially at higher speeds and loads. Look for advanced technology package . . . NO 17" wheels! Expected price range $11-13,000. Ideal 2013-2015 with 40-60,000 miles. Be reticent about the new model because 'they often have 1st year problems' <negotiating>
  
• Level 2 ECO - highest rated MPG . . . ask about what 'port options' are on the car and if you can get one without them. Expected price range $25,000
  
• Level 3 with Advanced Technology Package (ATP) includes automatic braking . . . same thing about the port options . . . whether you like them or not, it is negotiating point to 'I don't want that!' Expected price range $30,000.
  
• If members of Costco, use car finding service for a Level 2 ECO or Level 3 with ATP and NOTHING ELSE.
• Get salesman's name and card - call them.
• Last week of month is when you have maximum negotiating position.
• Do not encourage 'trade-in' talk because the dealer undervalues the trade-in car but yours needs major engine work and probably the O{2} sensor. If resold in an emissions testing state, it may also need a catalytic converter.

Feel free to post this e-mail in PriusChat, Gen-2 forum, probably maintenance including my signature. If Patrick Wong posts anything, I would treat his advice with great respect. Patrick is a 'Prius Friend' with great insights and experience.

If you decide to keep the 2005 running, budget $2,500-$3,000 and get miniVCI (and Windows emulator with Windows XP.) Your car can be repaired since the known error is the engine. Any competent 3d party mechanic shop should be able to handle it. The A/C code is important only because it can be another $500-600 repair. Also, the tires 'looked low' but we did not measure them.

Harbor Freight sells $10-12, tire pumps with a pressure gauge. You will pay for it the first year by improved MPG and lower tire wear by using it every 3-4 months to top off the tires.

* * *
Clients, a wonderful couple older than ~60. They report PriusChat membership and I encouraged them the follow up. All of the codes were photographed (I did not make a copy!)

It was an hour or so, spot check. Not a through diagnosis because that would require a 'road trip' another hour. Nice folks but not Prius-technical. However, they had a new-looking, Bentley book.

They live on a ridge line, ~500 ft. above the valley floors. Upon hind sight, a used, Ford CMAX might be an excellent solution because the plug-in allows them to offset gas price. Internal volume is similar to the NHW20.

Thoughts?

Bob Wilson

 

I remain convinced the 12V battery is suspect and the oil in the tail pipe is bad news. I suspect while they were there, the 12V drained down throwing a lot of false-positive codes. However, they are planning to leave for a long trip and I won't be able to take a look again till they get back.

This is what we saw on TechStream:

• P0A80 - replace traction battery pack
• C1310 - ABS/VSC/TRAC huh??
• B1421 - Air Conditioner Solar sensor
• B1200 - Gateway - Dome fuse disconnected
• B1207 - Gateway
• B1271 - Gateway

• Block 11 looks a little low but the minimum and maximum block identifiers changed.

• Nothing stands out

This is what they sent me after the shop visit:

I took it to the place you recommended HSV Automotive Yesterday. They said they could not find any sign at all of the oil leaking. They want me to keep track of how much oil I am burning per 1,000 miles.

Today, when I went to pick the car up the entire dash was lit up with all possible warning lights.

I went back inside and asked what THAT was all about since none were on except the 'Oxygen Sensor' warning light when I dropped it off. The responded that all those lights were on when THEY moved the car... They also said about 6 error messages came up from the Hybrid battery.

On the way home coming up Fearn (the backside of the Mt) the battery gave out (luckily, just after the hairpin turn where I could safely pull off!!). I let it sit for 15 min and was able to start to back up and get home (just barely...it was weak going uphill). So...there it sits for a while I am afraid. I had ordered a non-hybrid battery for it online earlier. I thought that was the one I needed to replace. Until we return from Peru at the very least...I am not doing anything.

It is odd because I had driven it last week...AND drove it down there and the car felt normal.

I was just looking at the 2016 models online and seeing what incentives are offered...before I opened your email!​

* * * *
FYI, I sent the client this note:
* * * *
Summary:

1. 12.05 V - the battery voltage range should be between 11.95 and 12.85 V. At 120.05 V, the battery is servicable but weak. Iy will probably be OK this summer but come the Fall, the cold weather can lead to problems. Priority low.
   
2. Throttle plate - did not feel 'sticky' but the discoloration around the edges suggest cleaning is probably desirable. It tends to get worse in humid conditions. Priority low.
3. Inverter pump - working fine but there was a Toyota recall for the pump. Priority low, check with Toyota Service Center on recall.
4. Brake fluid level - 1/4" low, probably needs topping off. Priority low but a cheap fix. Owner's manual identifies the type and it is a $10 fix. Priority medium.
   
5. miniVCI - after clearing, the A/C code came back right away. This is a persistent, hard failure. However, earlier stored codes need to be check. Given they showed up after the 12V ground disconnect, they should be checked and considered 'real'. We cleared them using miniVCI and that is very likely to reoccur. Research them and treat them seriously. Priority medium.
   
6. traction battery - for the couple of minutes we looked, no serious problem. The minimum voltage module pair and maximum voltage pair changed and was about 0.20 V different. The threshold is 0.30 V. A failing module will be 1.2 V (the voltage of a single NiMH cell) and there is no evidence of that problem. No problem, priority very low.
7. oil in exhaust pipe - along with oil loss, very bad. The O{2} sensors can't work if coated nor can the catalytic converter. Possible faults: leaking exhaust valve seal; leaking or broken piston ring, and/or; leaking intake valve. This needs to be diagnosed and any quality shop should be able to handle it. At a minimum, the engine cylinder head needs to be taken off and valves and guides reworked. Called a valve job, 3d party mechanics can handle but we're talking $1,000-2,000. Get three estimates. If worn or broken piston ring(s), the engine has to be rebuilt, $2,000-2,500. Repaired, car should be good for 3-6 years. Priority high . . . this summer would be good.

Turning this car into a dealer to buy a new 2016 Prius would be a fair option (and we both hate Bill Penny.) I would recommend visiting both Bill Penny or the Toyota dealer in Fayetteville to 'kick the tires.' Bill Penny is in SouthEast Toyota region which is notorious anti-Prius. Fayetteville is just simple ignorance but they are in the Cincinnati region, less bad. I would recommend test drives in:

• Ask to look at 2-3 year old Prius (2013-2015 are excellent years) - these have the 1.8L engine and can provide great value for the money. I would use Ebay to see what completed sale prices have been and that should be your guide. It is bigger with somewhat better mileage especially at higher speeds and loads. Look for advanced technology package . . . NO 17" wheels! Expected price range $11-13,000. Ideal 2013-2015 with 40-60,000 miles. Be reticent about the new model because 'they often have 1st year problems' <negotiating>
  
• Level 2 ECO - highest rated MPG . . . ask about what 'port options' are on the car and if you can get one without them. Expected price range $25,000
  
• Level 3 with Advanced Technology Package (ATP) includes automatic braking . . . same thing about the port options . . . whether you like them or not, it is negotiating point to 'I don't want that!' Expected price range $30,000.
  
• If members of Costco, use car finding service for a Level 2 ECO or Level 3 with ATP and NOTHING ELSE.
• Get salesman's name and card - call them.
• Last week of month is when you have maximum negotiating position.
• Do not encourage 'trade-in' talk because the dealer undervalues the trade-in car but yours needs major engine work and probably the O{2} sensor. If resold in an emissions testing state, it may also need a catalytic converter.

Feel free to post this e-mail in PriusChat, Gen-2 forum, probably maintenance including my signature. If Patrick Wong posts anything, I would treat his advice with great respect. Patrick is a 'Prius Friend' with great insights and experience.

If you decide to keep the 2005 running, budget $2,500-$3,000 and get miniVCI (and Windows emulator with Windows XP.) Your car can be repaired since the known error is the engine. Any competent 3d party mechanic shop should be able to handle it. The A/C code is important only because it can be another $500-600 repair. Also, the tires 'looked low' but we did not measure them.

Harbor Freight sells $10-12, tire pumps with a pressure gauge. You will pay for it the first year by improved MPG and lower tire wear by using it every 3-4 months to top off the tires.

* * *
Clients, a wonderful couple older than ~60. They report PriusChat membership and I encouraged them the follow up. All of the codes were photographed (I did not make a copy!)

It was an hour or so, spot check. Not a through diagnosis because that would require a 'road trip' another hour. Nice folks but not Prius-technical. However, they had a new-looking, Bentley book.

They live on a ridge line, ~500 ft. above the valley floors. Upon hind sight, a used, Ford CMAX might be an excellent solution because the plug-in allows them to offset gas price. Internal volume is similar to the NHW20.

Thoughts?