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How Clean Is Biodiesel?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by boulder_bum, May 19, 2007.

  1. boulder_bum

    boulder_bum Senior Member

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    So a local newspaper in Colorado printed a story about how Prii and other hybrids are going to get to use the HOV lane if they have the proper permit.

    Someone in the story's comments section asked why his VW TDI didn't get that privilage because it got 40+ MPG. Through some brief Googling, I discovered that part of the reason is that while diesels have high MPG and low green house gas emisssions, they actually pollute quite a bit. In fact, some VW TDIs got a 1 out of 10 on the EPA pollution score (Prius gets an 8/9).

    What I'm wondering is how much biodiesel might change that score. How clean is biodiesel fuel? I know it's considerably cleaner than normal diesel, but can a diesel car using biodiesel be about as clean as a typical hybrid?
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Biodiesel is higher in NOx. So it actually makes smog-related emissions worse in terms of the fuel itself.

    A diesel vehicle can earn a PZEV rating though. Prototypes have proven that level of clean is possible. But the technology required is expensive. It's a tradeoff no automaker has chosen to make yet.
     
  3. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    Biodiesel in a VW can affect the warranty. If memory serves me VW has a B5 limit on it's cars.
     
  4. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    Diesel puts out a lot of particulates. Biodiesel is carbon-neutral, which is good, but the pollution is not.

    A better solution is electric. My Zap Xebra is water powered. My electricity comes from the Bonneville Dam. :)
     
  5. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    That is so awesome, Daniel! I've been reading the many Zap threads of your new ride and I must say, I so want an all-EV vehicle. Congrats and yes, I know, public transport or my bike or my feet are more green for the planet...but an all-EV vehicle should be dominating transit, not gasoline. More 'water' power to ya!
     
  6. boulder_bum

    boulder_bum Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info, guys! Very informative.

    daniel, where did you get your Zap? They sound pretty cool and reasonably priced at only $10,000! It might be perfect for short commutes to work.

    They're street legal in the US, right?
     
  7. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boulder Bum @ May 21 2007, 01:44 PM) [snapback]446911[/snapback]</div>
    I bought mine from Grant's Pass Electric Vehicles in Grants Pass, Oregon (www.gpev.us). Sean will do upgrades, such as mine, with more and bigger batteries for greater range, a stronger controller for more acceleration, and other stuff as well.

    Different states have different regulations. In WA (and I believe most other states) it is licensed as a three-wheeled motorcycle, and is street legal and has no speed limits other than its own capability. (NEV's are limited by law to 25 mph, but the Xebra is not a NEV.) There are also dealers in CA. Note, however, that steep hills take a lot out of it. Mine easily goes 35 mph on flat roads and can get up to 40 mph, but on steep hills it barely holds 25 mph with full batteries, and less than that as the batteries run down. If you are in the mountainous part of CO the Xebra might not be for you.

    There are other EVs in the works that will perform as well as a regular car, or better (the Tesla Roadster, still in prototype out-accelerates a Ferrari). The Xebra is an in-town car.

    There are some very steep hills in downtown Spokane, and my Xebra handles them pretty well, but goes 10 mph slower than most cars take those same hills, and by the time I get there, I still have 3/4 of my electrons. It would have real difficulty with those same hills toward the end of its range.
     
  8. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 20 2007, 11:06 PM) [snapback]446483[/snapback]</div>
    Of course, Hydro is not an emissions free source of energy. Particularly in tropical areas there is a lot of methane associated with large dams. In flow hydroelectric is, I'm sure, better in this regard, though it comes with it's own set of issues.
     
  9. deh2k

    deh2k New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 21 2007, 04:46 PM) [snapback]446958[/snapback]</div>
    Every source of energy has issues, and that's why it's important to conserve.

    In what ways do hydro dams generate methane?
     
  10. boulder_bum

    boulder_bum Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(deh2k @ May 21 2007, 04:41 PM) [snapback]446983[/snapback]</div>
    Right, but some forms of energy are drastically less polluting than others (like solar power or hydroelectric vs. gas/coal).

    As for the Zap only getting a max speed of 40 MPH, I really wouldn't mind that 90% of the time. When I'm not working a mere ten minute drive from my house, I work downtown where I can take a light rail to get within throwing distance of my client's building.

    If there were a safe, inexpensive and reasonably performing electric car, I'd consider taking a test drive at the very least.

    I wonder if they have any dealers in Colorado (or will get some in the next few years).
     
  11. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 21 2007, 02:42 PM) [snapback]446954[/snapback]</div>
    It's really too bad it doesn't have regenerative braking. But, I guess that would add a lot to the cost of the car.

    Dave M.