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How do I use the battery info on the comsumption screen?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by dennisd, Oct 6, 2004.

  1. dennisd

    dennisd New Member

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    I usually drive with the consumption screen on. I like to see what my current tank of gas is getting (49.7 mpg) and the right hand bar that shows me the mpg in real time. I don't understand the recharging of the battery over time and what the little "leaf cars" or "half leaf cars" mean. I would like to use the info to help with my mileage, but I don't really understand what it means. I am a newbie so this topic has probably been covered already, but my search comes up with hundreds of references. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
     
  2. victor

    victor New Member

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    The little (MK1) prius outline indicates how much power you have regenerated during deceleration and breaking. Each car represents circa 50kwh I think, and I assume a half car is 25kwh. This power goes into your battery for reuse. A maximum of 4 cars can be shown in each 5 minute block.

    Presumably, if you regenerate more its still stored, but unfortunatly not displayed, which is a shame. Ive often had 4 cars shown going down hils.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    50kWh or 50Wh? I think it's Wh...
     
  4. victor

    victor New Member

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    Hummm Could be :oops: Maybe I had the Prius GT in mind :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:
     
  5. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    consumption screen is the one you use the energy screen is the one you display when you want to dazzel your passengers. I've never really found a use for it, other than an odd check of the battery.
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Lemme more directly try to answer your question:

    First, I've gone through a cycle of which Info screen I use most.
    Initially I used the Energy screen. I liked seeing what was going on, when the motor was driving the car, when the ice was, when both were, and when regen was occuring. Unfortunately, it led to a lot of time trying to achieve stealth mode and most likely led to lower fuel efficiency. Once I realized that I switched to watching the ...

    Consumption screen. This did wonders for my understanding of how to get good gas mileage and how the car worked over a longer period of time. I could see what types of driving led to lower fuel efficiency over time rather than moment to moment. I began driving to try to achieve higher 5 minute bars and that led to better overall mileage. I began, later, to be able to utilize the instantaneous mpg graph on the right to maximize my gliding and stealth driving without the need to look at the ...

    Energy Screen. But, ultimately, I really started getting picky and wanted to eek every ounce of energy I could out of a gallon of gas. I began driving with the Energy screen so I could tell when I was dead-banding (power from the ICE to wheels only, none to or from the battery/motor) which is the most fuel efficient driving when it can be done. Now I probably use it 75-80% of the time in my usual commute (stop and go driving ~12 miles) with glances at the consumption screen to see how I've been doing over time and what my tank mileage is. I still tend to use the Consumption screen for longer haul/hwy/interstate driving where I'm predominantly using cruise control and leave the computer to determine how to best use it's resources.


    The green leaf/cars....Think of them as BAD!! If you're seeing them that means that you are using brakes and losing energy. They represent a salvaged tiny fraction of that lost energy. It's better than none salvaged as with a traditional car, but still it amounts to only a 2-4% maximum fuel economy advantage to have the regen braking. I actually am most proud when I have few if any green car/leaves. I've maximized gliding (coasting without regeneration) and minimized braking and thus used as much of the power I put into achieving speed to gain distance.

    They do represent 50Wh each. (not kWh)

    Hope that helps a little. Let me know if I can elaborate or clarify at all.
     
  7. jamarimutt

    jamarimutt New Member

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    I sometimes drive through a section of town where's it's im perative to brake frequently. I have twice seen half a car above (outside) a bar because it would not fit inside the bar (too many cars there already).
     
  8. victor

    victor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"43801)</div>
    Cant say I agree on this point 100%. On the level breaking yes, but otherwise no. Depending on where you drive, the car can show you have gined power, for example when you drive down hill. You gain power from gravity. Also, in normal traffic it shows you are reading the road and alowing the car to regenerate power by not using the motor as you come to stopped traffic. This is GOOD. So many people drive at full speed and break ard when they have to stop - Thas bad!

    Are you saying you glide down hill so as not to get the cars and slam on the breaks at the last moment if you need to stop??? :lol:
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(victor\";p=\"43812)</div>
    Ah Victor...where did the energy come from to get to the top of that hill??? You're still net losing energy unless your Prius is spirited to the top of hills and thus lets you accumulate free leaves. You ultimately gain MORE power if you do not collect leaves but rather glide to the bottom of the hill with no regeneration at all and then continue the glide until you lose momentum enough to get you to your desired speed.

    That does, of course, assume that there is not a stop sign at the bottom of said hill. I have hills I descend that have stops at the bottom, but most do not and I'm able to continue the glide and utilize the developed kinetic energy more efficiently than the energy stored in the battery would have been if useing regen braking.

    I do, always, drive safely for conditions.
     
  10. dennisd

    dennisd New Member

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    Excellent info! Thank you all. I understand coasting as much as possible will help with over all fuel economy. I understand the "leaf car" meaning also. Just one more bit of clarifacation for me. At different time intervals, the bar for that particular 5 minutes ranges from the very top to a middle position. What is actually happening (I suspect the amount the battery is charged. What then, can I learn from the level in which the battery is charged in a particular 5 minute section. There is quite a bit to learn about this marvel of engineering!
     
  11. victor

    victor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"43822)</div>
    From petrol of course :roll:

    I see what you mean, but assuming I am up said hill, I want to get back as much power as possible into the battery, and 90% of the time, if you are on a hill thats long enough to provide a full charge, you will be using the breaks,or engine breaking. Im not talking about a slight slope, but a real hill.

    Anyhow, its all abit academic as the car was designed to get power back and when its got the power it soon uses it again.

    I recently did a trip of 700km over a weekend (in the test car from the dealer) and on the return trip I had to go over the Brenner and then over another mountain through Garmisch (know to a lot of Americans due to the military being there). I averaged 3.9ltr/100km for 120km, including autobahn driving. This equates to 72 UK MPG, which I consider fantastic.

    My car at the moment is getting 5.5ltr/100km (51 UK MPG) but its only done 350km!
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dennisd\";p=\"43823)</div>
    I'm a little confused here (you'll see that's common for me!)

    Are you talking about the Consumption screen only??? If so, there is no battery level indicator on that screen...only on the Energy screen. The bar to the far right of the screen is your instantaneous MPG. It will vary dramatically as you drive. Punch the gas and it plumments (the readout below tells you exactly what your instantaneous mpg is, the graph is just for an easy read at a glance). Back off the gas completely and it'll shoot back up to the top--99.9mpg. Set a steady speed and it'll settle somewhere in the middle.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(victor\";p=\"43832)</div>
    From petrol of course :roll:

    I see what you mean, but assuming I am up said hill, I want to get back as much power as possible into the battery, and 90% of the time, if you are on a hill thats long enough to provide a full charge, you will be using the breaks,or engine breaking. Im not talking about a slight slope, but a real hill.

    Anyhow, its all abit academic as the car was designed to get power back and when its got the power it soon uses it again.

    I recently did a trip of 700km over a weekend (in the test car from the dealer) and on the return trip I had to go over the Brenner and then over another mountain through Garmisch (know to a lot of Americans due to the military being there). I averaged 3.9ltr/100km for 120km, including autobahn driving. This equates to 72 UK MPG, which I consider fantastic.

    My car at the moment is getting 5.5ltr/100km (51 UK MPG) but its only done 350km![/b][/quote]

    Ok Victor, why is it that you German's feel so compelled to BREAK everything??? If you'd use your BRAKES once in a while you might not hit so much stuff and cause it to BREAK!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: :wink:

    I love screwing around with language barriers!!
     
  14. victor

    victor New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"43837)</div>
    From petrol of course :roll:

    I see what you mean, but assuming I am up said hill, I want to get back as much power as possible into the battery, and 90% of the time, if you are on a hill thats long enough to provide a full charge, you will be using the breaks,or engine breaking. Im not talking about a slight slope, but a real hill.

    Anyhow, its all abit academic as the car was designed to get power back and when its got the power it soon uses it again.

    I recently did a trip of 700km over a weekend (in the test car from the dealer) and on the return trip I had to go over the Brenner and then over another mountain through Garmisch (know to a lot of Americans due to the military being there). I averaged 3.9ltr/100km for 120km, including autobahn driving. This equates to 72 UK MPG, which I consider fantastic.

    My car at the moment is getting 5.5ltr/100km (51 UK MPG) but its only done 350km![/b][/quote]

    Ok Victor, why is it that you German's feel so compelled to BREAK everything??? If you'd use your BRAKES once in a while you might not hit so much stuff and cause it to BREAK!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: :wink:

    I love screwing around with language barriers!![/b][/quote]

    I havent a clue. If I can find a German I will ask one...... Im English :p
     
  15. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco\";p=\"43837)</div>
    I believe that in the past, in reply to one of my posts, he wrote that he is a Brit who lives in the Vaterland.
     
  16. tms13

    tms13 Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(victor\";p=\"43832)</div>
    That's where you and I differ (I'm with Evan here, AFAIK). In that situation, I want to get as much distance out of that gravitational energy as I can. If I have to store some in the battery to do so, I will, but if I can use the energy directly and mechanically, that's better.

    In practical terms, it may involve choosing a slightly longer route that comes down smoothly and gently and continues across the valley (or up the other side) in preference to one that winds its way down directly, but has sharp bends, or ends in a give-way or roundabout.

    Having to store energy for later in the battery is bad. Not as bad as being unable to store it (i.e. a conventional vehicle), but definitely inferior to having an immediate use.

    (There may be a trade-off at high speeds, where the losses involved in storage are outweighed by the increased drag)
     
  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(victor\";p=\"43838)</div>
    Oh, NOW I understand completely!! 8)
     
  18. bruceha_2000

    bruceha_2000 Senior Member

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    Gee, if one car leaf equaled 50 kW, we wouldn't need the ICE all EV ALL the time! :)

    I think that both Evan and Victor are correct about car leaf generation. Maybe it is REALLY flat in Nixa ;-) There are MANY places in my locale that require using the brakes even if there isn't a stop at the bottom of a hill. That requirement comes from the posted speed limits. Even though some are short, starting at 40 mph (speed limit) at the top and getting into 'no arrows' mode, you will be doing 50 or more at the bottom. I would rather use my gas money to generate car leaves than donate to the nice police officers and gather points (that really DO mean something) on my license. There are times when there is NO traffic to consider that I could follow Evan's advice by going 35 on the relative flat then using the kinetic energy of the hill to get up to 45 at the bottom with no regen then coasting back to 40 but that is not the norm.
     
  19. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Ok. Just yesterday, a guy here at work asked about the consumption screen. We were talking about unit conversions and figured that we would try to convert the Wh to horsepower, Btu, and just for kicks therms. But when pressed for details about the leaves, I couldn't give an answer. They asked if it was 50Wh simply generated; is it 50Wh recovered and stored in the battery; is it 50Wh in five minutes or 50Wh if maintained for one hour (in which case it would be (50Wh * 1/12)).

    I thought this thread was perfect timing.

    But now I'm just as confused as before. Only, I have more information to be confused about.

    I believed that the leaves indicated energy recovered by the car through braking and coasting. I figured such energy was stored in the battery for later use. I thought that was a good thing.

    But to see Evan, who's opinion and knowledge I respect, indicate that leaves are bad really boggles my mind. If they are markers of bad driving, they should not use cute little leave-car icons. Skulls or Hummers would be more appropriate.

    Can you dumb it down for us simple folk? Without talking strategy, without comparing the mountains in Germany from the rolling plains of the US Midwest, can you just say what they mean?
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer\";p=\"43889)</div>
    Ok, dumbed down. Leaves are better than heat lost to space as would happen with friction brakes. In that regard they are, indeed, good. But only a fraction of the kinetic energy lost with braking/slowing is recaptured and thus each leaf represents the salvaged portion of lost power. Furthermore, some of that energy is again lost in conversion from battery stored power to kinetic energy.

    I don't think I'd go so far as to say a leaf represents 'bad driving'. But it's important to not think of leaves as a positive end point to be striven for. If I see a consumption screen with 30 min of driving time and can count more than 4-5 leaves I know there was a lot of traffic or I hit a lot of red lights during that trip and was required to slow a lot. I know my gas mileage for that 30 min run is significantly less than it would have been had I not had as much traffic or as many lights.

    My work commute time varies dramatically. Sometimes I go in/come home at peak rush hour. Other times it's late night or very early morning with few if any other cars on the road and really long lights on my main route. I can see and predict the lights and often am able to slow/glide without regen braking or coasting at all. Those trips tend to be my very best mileage trips and I can make it with 1 1/2 or 2 total leaves showing for the full 25-30min trip. The other day I came home at peak rush hour. I had 9 leaves then, and didn't have the best trip.

    Ok, dumb enough or do I need to pull out the diagrams with primary colors and smiley faces?? :wink: