Featured How I think

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Sep 12, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Bob Wilson
     
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  2. 4est

    4est Active Member

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    I think it will
     
  3. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I think so, if the manufacturers will quit keeping PHEVs secret.
     
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  4. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    And the dealers around here keep them on their lots to test drive.
     
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  5. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Hasn't Toyota always said Hybrid technology was "bridge" technology?
    And I believe it is.
    It's a great technology, and with an infrastructure that still supports a majority of full ICE vehicles, my opinion is we are a long way from having fully crossed that bridge. But I also think the transition and rise in popularity of full electrics, and plug in hybrids is indicative of starting to see the "other side" of that bridge.

    My concern about the future, is will it be "two tier"?
    For myself, I would say, I'd love a full electric vehicle, or a plug in hybrid. But I "rent" and live in a Apartment environment. Which makes the reality of owning and operating anything that must be plugged in, or benefits most from being plugged in, really impossible at this point for me.

    I muse about the future of "personal" transportation for everyone. Right now, you have to be relatively affluent to afford an Alternative Vehicle, and also have the infrastructure ( Home/Garage/Charger ) to reap the most benefit.

    I can't predict the future...long term. Not sure exactly where we are headed. It's personal "small sample size" reality, but I have a 11 year old nephew who has been raised to really not be much of a "personal vehicle" occupant. My brother and his wife can easily afford, any vehicle they wish to own, but have really decided to use public transportation. They have raised him to walk, ride a bicycle, read a bus schedule, and really only use a personal vehicle when ONLY a personal vehicle will work. That's usually weekend "on the spot" rentals, if a long road trip is desired or necessary.
    They are living in a suburban environment, but it's really impressive, how much the do NOT miss NOT having a vehicle.

    I'll be dead by the time a lot of these questions get answered. But I don't know how the majority of us, will get from point A to point B, 50-100 years from now.
    We all might be stepping into pre-programmed, self driving pods.
    But every generation learns anew. I've been surprised how open and accepting of NOT growing up with a vehicle my nephew has been. Of course when he reaches 16, 17, 18? will he want a vehicle of his own?
    I'm not sure, but I think products, attitudes, perceptions about personal transportation and what it means, or should be, for everyone is changing.
    So how do I think?....I think it's a dynamic and changing time. The only thing I would predict with relative confidence is SOMEDAY, we will talk about fossil fuels in much the same context we talk about fossils.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and costs come down enough for the manufacturers to make as much as they do on a uge hunk of steel.
    but i disagree with her premise.
    these opinionators need to get their heads out of california.

    on top of that, she is anti tesla biased, claiming the price won't come down to 35k.

    and they need to find a way to make ev's that have as much interior space as their siblings.
     
    #6 bisco, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2018
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Which ones?
    BEVs like Teslas have lots of space with a skateboard battery pack and two trunks. I don't think the Bolt loses space in comparison to the Sonic/Trax. The Ioniq Electric has as much space as the plug in model, and it could have had a front trunk, but Hyundai likely chose to save costs there.
    PHEVs lose space because there are competing requirements between the battery and ICE. You don't want the battery too close to the ICE and its exhaust and emission system because of the heat. Some current ones could easily have been packaged better though, if the companies made different choices. PHEVs give the freedom of a traditional car, but that comes with the price of carrying around and paying for the requirements of two drive trains and fuel systems. Bi-fuel CNG lose space for the same reasons.
    Hydrogen FCEVs need space for the fuel cell, battery, and bulky fuel tanks.
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Clarity phev has more room than the clarity fuel cell
    The tesla model 3 has almost as much space as the best selling mid size sedan (camry) despite the camry being over 7" longer. The bev has 1 cubic foot more cargo capacity, but sacrifices a little hip and shoulder room for aerodynamics.

    The next gen bmw X5 phev will lose about 5.5 cubic feet of cargo room to its gasoline only powered stablemate, but it does have the same engine/transmission (tuned differently) and around 50 miles electric range on the wltp test. The midsized suv has a ton of cargo space, so I don't think its really a problem.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you always have to compare to a popular gasser like fusion (was) and camry is.

    rav4 is a good comparison. if the space is the same, and costs come down to the same after tax credits run out, then they will begin to take off. most people aren't going to switch otherwise, unless gas increases substantially.
    as it stands today (in north america) ev's aren't making much of a dent, i disagree with her present premise.
     
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As it is today, I think plug ins have a better chance than hybrids in the US. Part of the issue is a restraint in the battery supply. Hyundai wasn't expecting the Ioniq plug ins to be as popular as they were, and now they have to wait for battery production to ramp up. The Outlander PHEV ended up being so popular that Mitsubishi kept delaying North American introduction because all their production was needed for other markets. And Volvo had a diesel PHEV with a similar problem before that.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    probably
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    iirc - she's not sporting a California accent.
    :D
    and - go back into the archives you'll find she is a PC member (a minor journey) - & she made her own genII plugin ... back in the day (named it, Velma) long before Toyota was ever willing to consider giving it a try. So i give 'er slack.
    .
     
    #12 hill, Sep 12, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2018
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  13. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    That alone justifies my switching Patreon from Fully Charged to Transport Evolved. Robert tends to look at a larger picture including renewable energy but Nikki seems more focused on EV transportation which I appreciate.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i only mentioned it, because she didn't give any stats on arkansas.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    All Is forgiven

    .
     
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  17. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    That's awesome, Bob! And good call! She is a smart cookie!
     
  18. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Her accent is unsurprisingly familiar to me, but know what? Most of you 'Mericans seem to write in an English accent in my head. You make your own mind up what that says about me! LOL
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh, i have.:sneaky:
     
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  20. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    To be expected, I suppose. LOL

    On Star is being curtailed in UK next year, even to our-existing customers my local dealer informed me.

    Hah, reminds me of Spy vs Spy
     
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