How is Toyota going to Top Themselves for Gen V?

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by inferno, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,934
    35,522
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    There's a couple of cues they might borrow from the Honda Civic Hybrid. Not sure how effective they would be, but just for discussion:

    1. Dual spark plugs (with staggered firing)
    2. Dual lift cam lobes (low-lift, more fuel efficient cam lobes for normal running, but the ability with hydraulic pressures to shift over to high-lift lobes momentarily for heavy acceleration needs)
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    101,084
    45,830
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    minor improvements in 6 years might lead to another 25% decrease in sales.
     
    Coast Cruiser likes this.
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    43,843
    15,236
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yes and no. Only if it's cost effective (like the water-repellent windows on the Gen 3). E-Four is not cost-efficient for the type of "let's see if they like it."

    Because you only get one chance and if it sucks, it's going to make it more difficult to sell the improved version the next time around. E-Four would require specific North American testing parameters as we obviously have a different climate, driving style, driving expectations and so forth than the Japanese. (Like when Toyota sent engineers to Newport Beach to see what American luxury car drivers wanted in a car when developing the LS400 back in the 80s. They did the same with the development of the first gen Sienna to replace the Previa - an engineer spend nearly a year in the U.S. to get a feel of the American lifestyle and how they use their minivans.)
     
    Trollbait likes this.
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    19,170
    9,591
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Like GM's BAS and eAssist.
    And Toyota also has already been burned by rusty Hilux/Tacomas. Thought that seems to reappear every once in a while.
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  5. dangrass

    dangrass Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    47
    12
    0
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I think there may be a bright future for you at Toyota!
     
  6. tony2ltr

    tony2ltr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    165
    66
    0
    Location:
    North Branford, CT.
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The future of these cars may ultimately rely on the free piston engine/generator Toyota is developing along with hydraulic hybrid technology. Hydraulic hybrids are about 60% MORE efficient than motor and battery drivelines. Some EPA developed Hydraulic hybrids were achieving 80 mpg without aerodynamic bodies, just a roll cage. 90-95% charge/discharge efficiency



    Hydrogen cars will never happen. It's a bait and switch. 16 gallons of crude oil makes one kg of H2. So for 50 miles of driving, your marai BS tech will puke out 320 lbs of carbon, give or take. They sell the idea of h2 with windmills and solar, but the truth really is, it just keeps the oil industry in record making profits. Using CH4 (main natural gas component) steam Reformation, you waste 3kg of CH4 for every kg of H2.
    Keep your eye on the ball people.
    Toyota is not the green company they want us to believe they are. They fight clean air legislation and fuel economy legislation at every turn.

     
    #26 tony2ltr, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2016
    Prodigyplace and Coast Cruiser like this.
  7. jbkendrick

    jbkendrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    232
    196
    4
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Well, I'm already there with 4th Gen. Every day this week round trip commute
    I don't know about gen5, but I'm already getting consistent 70+ in the gen4. Now that is with some pulse and glide but by no means am I going to extremes. I'm finally learning how to get great mileage everyday on my commute, with AC running and today, I opened all the windows and sunroof round trip as we were in the low 80's and great sunshine. And near my home I have some pretty steep hills to climb. Here are my results from this week.

     
    #27 jbkendrick, Aug 4, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2016
    Prodigyplace and bisco like this.
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    101,084
    45,830
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    not sure i've noticed the green company propaganda. they make the most fuel efficient vehicle on the planet, a few very efficient, and a number of land yachts. same as every other manufacturer, except for the most fuel efficient one. it's up to consumers to decide who the green company is.
     
    tony2ltr likes this.
  9. tony2ltr

    tony2ltr Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2016
    165
    66
    0
    Location:
    North Branford, CT.
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Yep, they have more than their share of compliance cars, and one thing a lot of people don't even know, is that the fuel economy isn't even the best thing about Prii. It is the emissions. One Toyota trainer, when speaking of the gen 1 car in about 2002 claimed that a 2001 Prius made less hydrocarbon emissions in a year than a CAN of spray paint. I laughed at the impossibility of it, He swore the information came directly from engineering. I can't verify it, but the Prius is a compliance car. It's their hook.

     
    bisco likes this.
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,934
    35,522
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Pretty much as good as it gets for me, 3rd gen on 17" Pilots. And 4.0 (liters/100km)would likely calculate as 4.3. The latter translates to ~55 mpg (US).

    image.jpeg
     
    Tideland Prius likes this.
  11. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,072
    405
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    How do you do it? This is one thing I don't get with 4th gen drivers, when I test drove the car I couldn't find my instant mpg like the 3rd Gen to the right of the speedometer... So I had to rely on overall mpg on the trip which I find annoying...
     
  12. jbkendrick

    jbkendrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    232
    196
    4
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    QUOTE="inferno, post: 2394796, member: 114727"]How do you do it? This is one thing I don't get with 4th gen drivers, when I test drove the car I couldn't find my instant mpg like the 3rd Gen to the right of the speedometer... So I had to rely on overall mpg on the trip which I find annoying...[/QUOTE]
    I understand and have had to rely on the real time mpg in previous cars to assist in getting the best mpg, however, that technique is kind of old school, and actually, in my opinion, counter productive.

    With the data provided by Prius in the mid, I really have only two goals. 1) drive in EV mode as often as possible, and 2) proactively keep the battery charged. And I really work to make sure I don't upset other drivers, so I stay at or above the speed limit all of the time.

    Here's why realtime mpg would be counterproductive. When I am leaving a light or stop sign, or encountering an uphill incline, I accelerate at a higher rate than I normally would, often driving the mid into the power end of the scale. My goal is to get back up to speed as quickly as possible, and then let off the accelerator, wait for the EV light to go on and then keep my acceleration at a minimum to stay in the EV as long as possible. If I were looking at realtime mpg, I would never do that because it would be showing me atrocious mpg numbers. I can keep EV going, even travelling at 60+ mph, so I am travelling in all electric much more than I ever thought possible in an HEV. The other side of the coin is keeping the battery charge up, so I look for opportunities to get it back up when it needs it, accelerating more than necessary sometimes to add some charge, and of course making use of downhill glides. I have also learned on this forum that it is important to stay above the dotted lines on the battery meter when decelerating to a stop whenever possible. This maximizes regenerative charging and minimizes use of friction brakes.

    I have included a mid display with explanations for what I watch to get great mpg. I think the important element here is look at my acceleration score, which most would say is not very good. But I'm getting great mpg, and though I am accelerating at a higher rate than I normally would, I'm doing it with a purpose to achieve best mpg on my trip, my fill up and my lifetime mpg. And to be honest, if I use this data, I don't even need to pay attention to my average mpg at all until the end of the trip. Hope this can help in some way. J

    20160805_074934a.jpg
     
    #32 jbkendrick, Aug 5, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    apt49 and Coast Cruiser like this.
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,934
    35,522
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    That's interesting. You can't see instant mpg in the 2016? With our 2010, I like watching the eco/pwr bar graph, and the state-of-charge indicator. But I like the instant mpg too, especially since disconnecting ScanGauge a few months back.

    upload_2016-8-5_7-11-16.png
    (Cool colour scheme, eh?)
     
  14. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,072
    405
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Yeah I like more information *now* as well. I don't think "uh oh, poor MPG uphill, keep it in EV mode" - but with the PiP I do monitor it and see the information, like if I accelerate uphill how much battery do I use, what's my MPG going uphill? It's a great indicator of current situations to combine with current trip's information. I'm disappointed it's no longer there!
     
  15. inferno

    inferno Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2013
    1,072
    405
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I understand and have had to rely on the real time mpg in previous cars to assist in getting the best mpg, however, that technique is kind of old school, and actually, in my opinion, counter productive.

    With the data provided by Prius in the mid, I really have only two goals. 1) drive in EV mode as often as possible, and 2) proactively keep the battery charged. And I really work to make sure I don't upset other drivers, so I stay at or above the speed limit all of the time.

    Here's why realtime mpg would be counterproductive. When I am leaving a light or stop sign, or encountering an uphill incline, I accelerate at a higher rate than I normally would, often driving the mid into the power end of the scale. My goal is to get back up to speed as quickly as possible, and then let off the accelerator, wait for the EV light to go on and then keep my acceleration at a minimum to stay in the EV as long as possible. If I were looking at realtime mpg, I would never do that because it would be showing me atrocious mpg numbers. I can keep EV going, even travelling at 60+ mph, so I am travelling in all electric much more than I ever thought possible in an HEV. The other side of the coin is keeping the battery charge up, so I look for opportunities to get it back up when it needs it, accelerating more than necessary sometimes to add some charge, and of course making use of downhill glides. I have also learned on this forum that it is important to stay above the dotted lines on the battery meter when decelerating to a stop whenever possible. This maximizes regenerative charging and minimizes use of friction brakes.

    I have included a mid display with explanations for what I watch to get great mpg. I think the important element here is look at my acceleration score, which most would say is not very good. But I'm getting great mpg, and though I am accelerating at a higher rate than I normally would, I'm doing it with a purpose to achieve best mpg on my trip, my fill up and my lifetime mpg. And to be honest, if I use this data, I don't even need to pay attention to my average mpg at all until the end of the trip. Hope this can help in some way. J

    View attachment 114788 [/QUOTE]
    Isn't this screen redundant? lol I see the same information on the right side as the left!
     
  16. Coast Cruiser

    Coast Cruiser Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    2,267
    2,570
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Coast Highway
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Is Trip A not real-time MPG?

    Or how about the MPG number right next to the main odometer? Not real-time?
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Patron saint of newly poured sidewalks

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,934
    35,522
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I think by real-time, we're meaning instantaneous mpg, ie: second-by-second, the car's mpg. Trip A (or other) is accumulating mpg.

    I'm looking through a pdf of the 2016 manual, it seems like you can see instant mpg, but it means not seeing two others:

    upload_2016-8-5_9-21-17.png

    But isn't there another display showing the Hybrid System Indicator, and the battery status:

    upload_2016-8-5_9-22-15.png
     
    apt49 likes this.
  18. Starship_Enterprius

    Starship_Enterprius Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2014
    310
    150
    0
    Location:
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    I agree with Mendel, I found just this year the instant mpg is very important in getting good mileage with my G3 (71mpg). That is all I use as I don't have scangauge or apps.

    Prior to that, for 2 years I was doing something similar to what jbkendrick described (quick acceleration P&G, EV'ng etc) and could only get 64mpg. I too would be very irritated with not having the instant mpg. But I guess installing some app's or scangauge will finally be required.
     
  19. jbkendrick

    jbkendrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    232
    196
    4
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I did try using the current fuel consumption in the left display, but its not really the same as seeing the mpg number displayed which I'm sure would be what Inferno is looking for. I like being able to see the hybrid system indicator on the left mid, when I change the right mid to show my next turn while navigating. I just hit the right mouse button or left mouse button on the steering wheel to go back and forth from hybrid to nav display, and hybrid system is always there on the left. The only thing I dearly miss is the EV indicator on the left side. Guess they can't cram everything into one display. J
     
  20. jbkendrick

    jbkendrick Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2016
    232
    196
    4
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I did try using the current fuel consumption in the left display, but its not really the same as seeing the mpg number displayed which I'm sure would be what Inferno is looking for. And, I like being able to see the hybrid system indicator on the left mid, when I change the right mid to show my next turn while navigating. I just hit the right mouse button or left mouse button on the steering wheel to go back and forth from hybrid to nav display, and hybrid system is always there on the left. The only thing I dearly miss is the EV indicator on the left side. Guess they can't cram everything into one display. J
     
Loading...