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How unfamiliar technology might have doomed these two women,

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Georgina Rudkus, Feb 22, 2020.

  1. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Florida Fisher Island ferry deaths: Car rolls off, killing 2 women

    Confusing start-stop technology, a confusing shifter, push button start might have doomed these two women who droved off the deck of the ferry.

    Just failing to place the car in PARK, applying the parking brake or even just hitting the accelerator or brake petal with the engine off in the stop mode of the start-stop feature might have easily been the cae.
     
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    There is no mention of the model of car, nor the technology it used. Just that it was a blue Mercedes.
    What was mentioned is that ferry workers “typically” place blocks behind car wheels. Why this wasn’t done is unknown.

    You appear to be trying to make a connection where none is evident. Further information may arise that supports your supposition, but right now it appears you are jumping to conclusions.

    In any event, it is always important for people to be familiar with the tech they are using. Be it the owner of a car using a parking break, or ferry worker using a block.
     
    #2 Zythryn, Feb 22, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2020
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    maybe it was a boeing
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    What happened to the wheel chocks that the ferry workers are supposed to put on all the end vehicles?
    What happened to the restraining cable that should catch rolling cars? This is not a single-point failure, it is at least three distinct failures.

    Cars possibly rolling off the end are a known failure mechanism that other ferry systems have already learned how to address.

    "WSVN-TV reported that ferry workers typically place blocks under the tires of the vehicles they're hauling to prevent them from rolling. According to the Herald, thin netting is strung across the edge of the ferry to prevent cars from falling, rather than a metal barrier like the one on the Balboa Island ferry in Newport, California."
     
  5. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Not jumping to conclusions. Just speculating.

    Pilot error in aircraft, as in driving cars, like stepping on the gas instead of the brake, is a known cause of accidents.
     
  6. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    Nah! …in these cases, I am reminded of Charles Darwin's theory! ;):)
     
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  7. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Not enough information "yet" to really know.
    I think hypothetical speculation is OK though, but conclusion isn't warranted or viable. Authorities will investigate and probably be able to determine what state the vehicle was in...that is...in park, running, whatever....
    I would speculate that the Ferries action of providing wood blocks, and a safety net, is more of a unoccupied preventative measure, for vehicles that may not have their parking brakes on, but even if in place wouldn't stop a vehicle with momentum and/or one that is running. BUT I'm breaking my own rule here, and speculating without enough definitive information.
    At this point? It's just a sad tragedy. RIP to the victims.
     
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  8. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Simply put, the "pull up" lever handle parking brake remains the best, the Prius "step on" not as good, and the worst is the electronic push button.

    Technology for its own sake can result in fatal consequences.
     
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  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Ages 63 and 75, thus not eligible for any Darwin Award. Rather, just an all-too-commonplace tragedy.
     
  10. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Humans are creatures of habit. the Mercedes was reported as a new 2019 model. We don't know what the driver drove before. New technology takes getting used . In emergency situations humans resort to "muscle memory."
     
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  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    I always thought it was funny how all the automakers copied the Prius start button for no other reason than marketing
     
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  12. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    There is value in something that is "simple and reliable."

    The old mechanical lets you know from looking at it that it's in PARK. You can't remove the key except when the transmission is in PARK. You can actually see for sure that the emergency brake is activated when it is tilted to the UP position.

    Electronic gadgets are good only when they prove to be more reliable that the old tried and true mechanical equivalents that they are intended to replace.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    An electric parking brake can be programed to engage when the car is turned off or put into park. It can also save over 10 pounds of weight, helping with efficiency.

    It isn't technology for its own sake.

    Push button start was in luxury cars before the Prius. Giving it to the Prius when only Lexus had it was marketing by Toyota. Like many features(power windows and such) that show up in high end models first, it was only a matter of time before the others got it.
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I don't think luxury cars got it before the Prius. The LS might've gotten it at the same time for the 2004 MY but I don't believe it was the first.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Hybrids need something different than a regular ignition lock.

    Could still be a key, but they came up with sks. A neat trick, but not universally praised.
    Nissan was the first ad I remember promoting the push button on a gasser
     
  16. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    To be fair, the controls of lots of german u-boats were pretty confusing:

    [​IMG]
    You might think they just put it in "dive" and hit the gas, but apparently there's a little more to it.
     
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  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    At least it wasn’t an issue if they went off the end of the ferry
     
  18. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Gen 1 had a regular key (and locked the steering column). Also a shift lever that made its little electronic selections with a real mechanical kerchunk.

    When they swapped the key for the pushbutton was when they also swapped the steering column lock for the motorized, supposedly-hard-to-access Park lock actuator.
     
  19. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    PARK? You mean that brake pull lever in the center of my household's non-Prii, all with manual transmissions?

    By "old mechanical", I think of the stick shifts still on everything in my household except the Prius. Plenty of such legacy vehicles are still on the road. No Park gear to be enforced at shutdown, and now (on our 2014 Subaru) not even an ignition key / steering wheel interlock. That "newfangled" mechanism was replaced by engine immobilizers. I simply pull the key out the same way as before those interlocks existed. And it has always been easy to leave these rigs free rolling in Neutral.

    Simple, reliable, but never really universal.

    The transition from key start to push button start ought not be any tougher than the previous transition from manual to automatic. That shifter should be no more confusing that the various zig-zag and gated shifters of various regular automatics, created for various reasons.

    I don't believe many folks here would insist that the user interfaces should have been frozen at any past point just to avoid driver unfamiliarity with new technical advances.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Turns out push button start is nearly as old as EVs. The first ICE cars with starters used a button to activate it.

    As for modern push button start, "The key starter remained the only way to start a car until 1998, when Mercedes-Benz introduced “Keyless Go” on the fourth-generation S-Class. Building on the remote fobs used industry wide to lock unlock cars since 1983, it used technology developed by Siemens. Keyless Go allowed drivers to walk up to their locked car, open it by tugging on the door handle, get in, and push a button to start the car. Full circle."
    Push-button start: An old-school solution reimagined for the modern age

    My Sonic had a key that you turned to activate the electric start. Didn't have to hold it at start position until the engine fired up like past cars.

    There was just no where for the gas to go if the batteries started venting though.
     
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