Hubris: Toyota

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: 'Tesla May Have Future Recipe, But Toyota Has Real Kitchen And Real Chef'

    Tesla became the most valuable car company in the world last July, leaving Toyota and Volkswagen in the dust. That’s impressive for a company that sold 367,500 vehicles in 2019. According to Bloomberg, Akio Toyoda finally commented on that in an online briefing. In his words, although Tesla says its recipe will be the standard in the future, it is Toyota that has “a real kitchen and a real chef.”

    Toyoda would have said that while he commented on how Toyota more than doubled its operating profit forecast for 2020. These amazing results were not enough for the company to get at least close to Tesla’s current market cap.
    . . .

    When I was working, our division chief claimed that going from 5-10% growth per year, we would double that rate. I knew he was lying and made appropriate plans.

    Bob Wilson
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    great, a real kitchen and a real chef. But as for electric cars, there's very little in the fridge - unless you go to China where they forced Toyota to build them, or tell them to get out otherwise
    .


     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    teslas stock price is a bet. a hunch. prognostication. toyota is a bread and butter stock that is mostly worthless.
    it does yield 3% because of its rock solid reputation and technology though, which is a very valuable thing these days.
     
  4. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    Toyota, it seems, has lots of people working on the "perfect" electric car battery for a long time.

    Everyone knows if you leave something in the oven too long it doesn't taste good when it comes out.
    Too many cooks spoil the broth.

    Mike
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the perfect toyota battery will be available when a toyota bev is as profitable as the camry.
    as it is, they are questioning prius
     
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  6. t_newt

    t_newt Active Member

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    The search for the 'perfect' or 'Sakichi'* battery is Toyota's white whale.

    *Sakichi Toyoda, father of Toyota's founder, promised 1 million yen in 1925 for a battery that produces more energy than gasoline. Toyota's planning documents show a super 'Sakichi' battery as the future of the company, with hydrogen cars as the interim low-pollution fill-in until the battery is developed. They are spending billions on solid state battery research, which promise amazing energy density, but so far they've all had major issues that have caused lots of solid state battery companies to go under including large divisions of Dyson and Bosch. Meanwhile, while they search for the perfect battery, other companies are building 'good enough' batteries that get better every year, and motors, and huge factories for the batteries and cars, charging infrastructure,servicing, etc. Many billions of dollars are being spent to build all this--all of which Toyota will have to build out even if they can eventually build their mythical battery.

    In my opinion, Akio Toyoda, Sakichi's great grandson and current president of Toyota, needs to let go and follow VW's footsteps and needs to do this soon. Toyota makes the worlds most solid, reliable cars. It would be a shame if they get caught behind in a transition of the industry and end up having nothing to show for it.
     
    #6 t_newt, Nov 6, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  7. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    You all should just stop worrying about what Toyota does or does not do. Be happy with your non Toyota vehicles and let it be.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    hopefully the Sakichi camp won't end up like Captain Ahab, searching for the white whale until ending up at the bottom of the drink.

    .
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Citizens sound always be concerned with how their tax dollars are spent.
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    'toyota ceo akio toyoda says that they have a full kitchen, chef and menu, while tesla has only a chef and a recipe.
    ironic, coming from a guy who inherited a business that inherited an industry

    awfully defensive. worried at all akio?
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Yeah great. They've got a chef in the kitchen .... and on the menu? Today's special? Grass sandwiches. (hydrogen cars & hybrids) That's fine. China has already told Akio-san to change the menu or get out. China wants the menu of tomorrow, Tesla's steak & Lobster mashed potatoes. Nothing wrong with grass sandwiches, but someday you might just want something better / something else.
    With a new president promising to wipe out the oil industry? Good Luck reforming hydrogen or running a hybrid on non-renewable fuels in any economic manner.

    .
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: Opinion | Biden’s ‘gaffe’ is the truth: Oil is history - The Washington Post

    “I would transition away from the oil industry, yes,” Biden said, after President Trump accused him of wanting to not only dismantle the oil industry but also force the end of fossil fuels more broadly. “The oil industry pollutes, significantly,” Biden added, and “it has to be replaced by renewable energy over time.”

    I thought this was what he said, not "With a new president promising to wipe out the oil industry?" Always best to cite source and quote accurately.

    Bob Wilson
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    bob, you're in the wrong thread again
     
  14. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    You keep stating China is against Hydrogen - your fixated on Hydrogen and China. China is not against Hydrogen.
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Two thoughts:
    • Which Forum - it was 2-to-1 Toyota content because there was no Tesla reply. One sided, leave it in Tesla.
    • Biden comment - the first comment was misleading but had relevance to the original article. Just I prefer citing original sources than leaving a 'spin' post not in Fred's House of Politics. Sometimes stuff spills over but that is no moat to spin.
    Bob Wilson
     
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    China stopped the willy nilly subsidies for hydrogen cars that California and others are still doing, because the old programs weren't helping the cars grow market share. If they spend anything on hydrogen, it will be projects aimed at actually helping hydrogen succeed.
     
  17. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    And?
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It results in less money spent on hydrogen, they've cut back.
     
  19. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Not if they meet compliance with the Chinese government. Who says these companies won’t?
     
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Who's saying they will?

    China put a hurdle up to get subsidies. Companies that were doing token efforts to just get government cash, who were the reason China made this move, are just going to abandon hydrogen there. The others now have to put in more effort to get the subsidy, and plug ins are already better established there. Easier to just stick with plug in cars. The only news of a project under the new rules is for buses.
     
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