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HV Battery failing?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by skip bart, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. skip bart

    skip bart Junior Member

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    I'm new to the forum, but not to Prius. I bought a new Prius in 2005. It now has 324,000 km (201,000 mi) on it.
    When I don't drive on high mountain roads with long steep (>6%) hills it runs completely normally and you would not know there is anything wrong.
    On very long hills the HV battery depletes, there is loss of power and the engine takes over completely. All expected, but it is happening on hills that it never happened on before and when the engine runs at max revs (and probably getting hotter) for a long time it starts to sound like the fan is hitting something - a very fast clicking. It sounds similar to the clicking of a dead battery, but much faster and becomes much louder if I don't let up on the gas pedal. I can avoid all problems by slowing down and not expecting the car to stay at the speed limit (110 kmph or 70 mph). It only makes a 10 to 15 minute difference on a 5 hour drive.

    What is the noise? The fan seems to be fine, not loose.

    I suspect that the battery or some cells in the battery are failing - if that were not happening I would not be aware of a fan/bad engine noise problem at all.

    Am I on the right track if I have the HV battery checked and replace dead/dying cells. Should I look for a used replacement battery with less than 100,000 km (60,000 mi) on it? Or what?

    If fixing the battery gets rid of the noise should I do anything about the fan noise? - if that's what it is.

    Thanks in advance for you help.

    Skip
     
  2. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

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    Two things I would check. One, has your HV Battery Fan been cleaned? It is possible that your fan is clogged, the battery is overheating and therefore you are experiencing a reduction in power... Also, have you removed the cap from your inverter reservoir and checked for turbulence? This indicates proper flow from the inverter pump. I would check these first.
     
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  3. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi skip. It definitely sounds like your battery has lost some of it's capacity. My 2005 Prius also seems to have lost some capacity, though fortunately I don't have any mountains that I need to maintain 110 km/h over. Luckily I don't get that problem as the mountain passes I often traverse are steep and windy with about an 80 km/hr limit.

    As for the clicking, are you certain it's not the thermostatic fan that only runs when the radiator temperature is high enough? If you stop does it keep running for a while, or is the clicking only happening precisely when the engine is also revving?

    As for "clicking of a dead battery", as far as I know no batteries ever make a clicking sound of themselves, but a low battery can cause a relay to drop in and out and make a click. The clicking sound you sometimes get in a conventional car, when you try to start on a flat battery, is the starter motor solenoid dropping in and out. The solenoid energizes and comes in, but as soon as it does so it causes starter motor current to flow which collapses the instantaneous battery voltage causing the solenoid to drop out - and the cycle repeats.
     
  4. skip bart

    skip bart Junior Member

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    Thanks Eclipse. I've spent a good part of the day getting familiar with taking the back apart to get at the HV battery fan. It was a little dirty, not really bad, but now it is clean and may help. I'll check out the inverter reservoir tomorrow and if it's good, I'll take it on a hard test drive to see if it has helped.

    Uart. The clicking does go with the revs of the engine. You're right about my comment about the 'clicking of a dead battery'. I wasn't suggesting that it was a solenoid clicking, just that that's the kind of a sound it was - except very rapid, . . . like a fan blade hitting. Sounds like your mountains are NSW?? I wouldn't do those at 110 km/h either, 80 is plenty!!

    Skip
     
  5. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Ok that's weird, it definitely seems like an engine related noise then. Perhaps the somewhat weak battery is making it worse by causing the engine to work hard, but it's actually an engine related problem. Are you sure it's not pre-ignition (pinging/detonation)?
     
  6. skip bart

    skip bart Junior Member

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    Definitely not pinging - way too loud and a much different sound.
     
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Put the car in "inspection mode" and that will allow you to rev the engine at will and the engine will not shut off.
    See "Prius Inspection Mode" on youtube. Have someone rev it so you can listen to it.

    The battery fan can be serviced. Pull the sticker off the back bearing hole and use 20 weight oil oil that hole. That will oil the back bearing.
    Lowes sells a small tube of Electric Motor oil in a little spout bottle. Its basically 20 weight but in a convenient tiny spout.

    Your motor at its age is probably got some top end noise. Chain, valves etc. Its using oil now so have to watch it closely. Its probably low on oil right now lol.

    By the way if the Hybrid Battery was failing under load it would throw a DTC. If you are really concerned about the battery take it to the dealer or any other place that has Toyota/Lexus Techstream software and the HV battery an be thoroughly interrogated for balance and health. See youtube techstream for more info. Dealer for instance charges $125 for diagnostic fee and you can get a print out of the battery page. Please post that here.

    Btw, going up hills with load and speed and the Hybrid Battery in low or not fully charged is the hardest thing to do to a Prius. MG2 will pull max load on the Inverter and things start to heat up fast. The Inverter coolant and trans fluid will spike super hot and its the most dangerous as MG2 motor winding will get really hot. Thats how the electric motor fails. Its the usual way for a Prius transmission to fail. MG2 will not be able to supply enough motive force to satisfy your gas pedal position forcing the engine to race to supply motive force. Its super duty right there. Many a Prius has ended up on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck while trying to go up steep mountains with a load in the cabin, ac ,lights, cd on, and at speed and not having good fluids on board. And not realizing you can't just floor the car up hill when the battery is low. Your basically killing the car.

    Next time you go up a mountain and the engine has been racing pull over and see how hot the Inverter is.
    See if you smell anything burning.

    Your one owner. How many times have you replaced the trans fluid and Invert Coolant.?
     
  8. Eclipse1701d

    Eclipse1701d Prius Enthusiast

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    Okay. So you've got the first step done. Now, check for turbulence in the inverter coolant tank and please report back!
     
  9. skip bart

    skip bart Junior Member

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    Going backwards up your list of items.
    Trans fluid was replaced at 95,000, 197,000, 228,000 and checked "full & clean" at 283,000. I'm at 325,000 km now.
    Invert Coolant was replaced at 151,000, 228,000 and 232,000 km. It's due for a change now.

    I will check inverter heat and smell and listen to the engine in inspection mode next time it's been working hard on the mountain roads. Once I've done that I will be taking it easier on the engine through the mountains so I won't be "killing the car". I did come to the same conclusion that you mentioned in your long paragraph and other than a hard drive to test it I slowed down as the bars on the battery display went down, in order to keep the battery charged more so that it could assist the engine more. That seemed to work well without adding too much time to the trip. The time was no worse than it would have been a few years ago in an older model car that could not keep up to the speed limit. Certainly way better than my first car, a 1960 VW beetle, way back when, lol.

    I had a tech (not Toyota) read the computer for HV battery balance and health this morning. He said the battery was at 61% and when we looked at each module they were all between about 16.49 and 16.52 v. A little low, but pretty well balanced.
    I do have an O2 sensor reading that indicates the Catalytic converter is not as efficient as it should be. We are going to try to burn that out and see if that improves the engine performance as well.

    The oil is not too low, well above the add mark, but you are right it is using quite a bit of oil. I have let it get way too low sometimes in the past and am more careful about checking it now. It doesn't seem to have a lot of top engine noise, but that could just be that it's been increasing gradually and I just haven't noticed it.

    I"ll do the battery fan when I get back in 10 days.

    Thanks for your help.

    Skip
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Ok glad to help. Your doing something right to with all those miles on the car. Its a great little workhorse.
    I like the battery module numbers. Not to bad. Looks like the delta (difference in module voltage the true sign of a bad module) is not to bad.
    Noise may just be the top end is getting old. Keep the old at the full mark she needs all the lubrication she can get when your in the mountain mode with low batt and the engine is maxed out and screaming.

    Good Luck!