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Hybrid Battery Issue

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by tjsadler, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    I have a 2005 with 218,000 miles on it. It's my daughter's car. She recently was driving and got the dash full of warning lights (red triangle, check engine, vsc, circle/exclamation). I had her pull over so I could come check it out. When I tried to start it about 10 min later the 12v battery was dead. It had died once before a few months ago after lights were left on. I jump started it and a couple lights were no longer on. I drove it home and everything seemed like normal operation so I ordered the 12v replacement from elearnaid and popped that in. Started right up, went for a test drive, everything fine. Next day, lights on again. I ordered a mini vcs cable and installed techstream last night.

    Codes read P3000 and P0A80. I reset the codes after reading what they were. Restarted the car several times and drove it a few blocks. No codes returned.

    I then reconnected techstream and did the charge/discharge test from another thread (select drive, gas and brake, watch block voltages rise, reverse, brake and light throttle, watch voltage drops). On the charge cycle block 3 goes about .1-2v higher than the others. On the discharge block hangs around .3v lower until it gets well into the cycle (about 40sec or so) and then starts to lose more than the others until it's about 1v-1.2v below the others. All the others are within .2v of each other and fluctuate slightly between them. So far the codes have not shown back up.

    I'm assuming the codes will come back and that the battery will need replacement. I'm not an electrical engineer but I'm very mechanically inclined and haven't paid a mechanic to do anything on one of my vehicles for 20 years. I'm interested in possibly just replacing the two modules making up that block but I'm a little confused as to what I need to do to "match" the replacement cells to the rest of the modules. Also, will she be causing any damage if she drives it with these lights on? Will it overheat or damage anything? Is there a source via this website for reliably tested used battery modules?
     
  2. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    If this is your daughter's car and you need the car to be reliable, it's best you not just replace the "block" to get the car going again. That type of repair is short term and it will breakdown again shortly.

    To do a proper repair, you would need to identify all the weak/failing modules in the pack and then replace with good modules. Then charge and balance the pack. This type of repair process should give you a more reliable repair.

    Alternatively, you can find a used battery pack from a Gen3 car and switch all the battery modules to your car. That is also a cheaper way of fixing it.
     
    m.wynn, Raytheeagle and jerrymildred like this.
  3. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    I understand that more is required than dropping in one "block". As I understand it I would need to replace both modules that make up that block and then charge and balance the pack. How do I find "good modules" to use for the replacement. As I understand it from reading the threads here you need modules that more or less match the voltage of the existing units. I'm not sure I trust the guys selling modules on eBay to accurately represent that number so how can I be sure I'm getting appropriate modules for this specific car?
     
  4. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    We have members here that can sell you good modules, I would think it'll cost close to $90-$100 for a block shipped to you. More than Ebay but these should be tested already.

    Your biggest hurdle would be getting the equipment to recondition your current pack. The charger and discharger. Where are you located?
     
  5. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    I'm near Eureka, CA. The FAR North Coast. We're 4-5hrs from everywhere but I can easily go to Sacramento or SFO to get what I need. Or I can order it all online. If I can recondition this battery by replacing a couple modules myself and buying a few tools then I'm more comfortable doing that even if I have to do it once or twice a year from now on as other modules reach their end of service point. Based on other's experiences here the refurbished batteries are still fairly pricey and are a crap shoot on quality. We bought the car two years ago with 200,000 miles on it for $6k so I don't really want to spend almost half that amount on a new pack from Toyota. My daughter just drives it around town and we have another car she can use if needed as a short term thing.
     
  6. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    We have members from northern CA and they may be able to offer some help
     
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  7. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    See the link in my signature to see what I did when I got the P0A80 code. Since then, there's another option available to replace all the modules with new aftermarket ones for about $1600 but that's uncharted waters right now.
     
  8. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    So if I understand correctly the Prolong system would allow me to charge and balance the cells without collecting multiple hobby chargers, speaker wires, 12v power supplies, etc... So if I was able to find a couple modules and then use that system it would work until another module gives up the ghost.

    I'm fine with this needing to be done every so often and I'd rather buy the tool and keep replacing modules given the age and mileage of this car. Basically for the cost of the cheapest, least reliable, Craigslist replacement battery I can do it myself this time and then only be out the cost of the module(s) next time.
    ...Or am I missing something?
     
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  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Yes, you basically have it correct. It'll be a learning curve in identifying the bad modules, some are harder to see than others.
     
  10. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    That's the gist of it. If your time is free or you enjoy working on cars, then playing whack-a-mole with the battery will work. If you expect to put in a couple new modules ("blocks") and be trouble free for another few years, probably isn't going to happen.

    After you do it a couple times, you can probably be in and out of the pack within 1-2 hours. Tearing the car apart, taking out the battery, disassembling the battery, replacing the module, re-assembling the battery, re-assembling the car, clearing the codes.

    Also since you are in CA, you probably have emissions to pass yearly. As you probably know a thrown code will fail your inspection and it has to be driven a while for it to register properly. So you may want to time your module replacement for like a month before your next inspection.
     
  11. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    Double
     
    #11 tjsadler, Oct 24, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  12. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    I understand that it won't be totally trouble free and I might have to keep replacing modules every few months. I'm fine with that. We're so far out that we don't have annual emissions so that's not a problem. Who is a good source for replacement modules on here?

    I assume that I'll need to get the battery out and voltage tested to see what voltage I need to match.
     
  13. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I have modules I can sell you.
    Look around at my posts here on PriusChat. Or my Facebook page reviews. You will see I am knowledgeable, honest, and a supporter of the Prius community.
    Feel free to call me if you have any questions. Glad to help.
     
  14. greasemonkey007

    greasemonkey007 Active Member

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    For not too much more than the charger and harness alone from Hybrid Automotive you can get a simple discharger and a load tester to fully recondition your pack. Then you're not in and out of it nearly as often. I will say though, that a lot of the 04 to 06 model packs that I've rebuilt are starting to play out. I think they have cycled about as many times as they're going to. They'll test ok after reconditioning, but they're just not lasting as long as the newer ones. I sell these as half price batteries and explain to the buyer why they're half price.
     
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  15. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    Thanks! I'll hit you up after I get the battery out and fully tested.
     
  16. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    What discharger and load tester would you recommend? I know this may be a continuous process but I'd rather get the tools set up and then be out $100-$200 every so often. The car is in great shape otherwise but with that many miles I'm not sure I want to spend 50% of the car's purchase price for a battery that will last another 200,000 miles and then have the ICE or some other expensive component break after 25,000.
     
  17. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yes.

    Also factor in the vehicle will be down for over a week each time this happens (unless you get overnight shipping or a local supply of modules) doing all this. That was fine when I first got the car as my teenage driver wasn't ready to drive but now having it down that long would defeat its purpose of having a reliable vehicle so I went with a new Toyota battery. But a car with 218,000........ yeah, read up on the repair. ;)
     
  18. greasemonkey007

    greasemonkey007 Active Member

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    Go to http://www.hybridautomotive.com and check out the products tab. They have a simple reconditioning package that's only $60 more than the charger and harness alone. They also have a deluxe version that has an automatic discharger that you don't have to babysit like the light bulbs. You can push a button and walk away for a while with it. With the light bulbs you have to monitor the voltage reading pretty frequently and change the bulbs to slow down the discharge at certain thresholds. The both work, and I use both.
    I modified their setup with Fluke leads to fit my meter. I also changed their load tester by wiring both filaments together to get more load from the halogen bulb. I think a larger load would be better, but I have not took the time to make one.
     
  19. tjsadler

    tjsadler Junior Member

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    I've ordered the Deluxe Reconditioning Package from them this morning. So I will now need to wire up a tester ( I already have a multimeter so I didn't spend $79 extra on theirs) and determine if any other modules are weak in addition to block 3. Then find modules on here that match the voltage of the other modules. Is that correct? How close do they need to match?
     
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  20. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Capacity matching is more important than voltage matching, but both are needed for an install.
     
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