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Hybrid motor died

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pkhoury, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    Not sure if this has been posted before, but I searched and couldn't find anything. Where to start (aside from not posting on this forum in several years)...

    I got in a minor collision about two weeks ago - someone hit the rear sidewall of my 07 Prius while I was doing about 35 down a street (no lights or blinkers on the other car). After this, I started noticing the red triangle of death coming on intermittently, with the usual ambiguous "PROBLEM" coming up on the MFD, but going away. This past Sunday, after the car was working fine all day, it died at an intersection, and mysteriously, there was very little oil in the engine. I took it to a third party who was recommended to me as specializing in Toyota's and Honda's, in particular hybrids, who are repairing the body and investigating the mechanical aspect of the car. So far, they concluded the 12V battery is okay. The hybrid battery has a low charge, but the engine crankshaft turns properly and the hybrid motor might be fried.

    Has anyone else experienced any of these issues? The car has 126K miles on it, and has been working fine up until now. I have a strong suspicion that the impact from the accident is directly related to these problems, but nobody is certain yet. The mechanic thinks costs will be upwards of $3000, and the car isn't really worth that anymore. Thanks for any help.
     
  2. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    Are you saying that the traction motor as in the main electric motor is fried?
    Or the inverter?
     
  3. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    The mechanic is suggesting that it's the main traction motor that's bad, but they're going to further diagnose the problem tomorrow. As it stands, they cannot get the car out of park.
     
  4. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    Wow.
    That's awful strange. Electric motors tend to be very reliable...seeing how there's nothing that can ever really go wrong, it's basically one moving part. Keep us posted on how everything goes! I'd be interested in seeing pictures if that's possible.

    On that note, I'll go ahead and state that I would just go ahead and get a new car. (Hopefully a Prius!) I don't think I would tinker around with a Prius with a bad motor, even if it was replaced. Feel free to do what you want though, it's your choice, that's just my take on it though.
     
  5. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    confused and red flags

    I'm confused. From your descriptions, red flags are already going up in my head about this mechanic and him "specializing" in hybrids. Are we talking about the ICE or MG1 or MG2? MG1 and MG2 are located in the power split device/transaxle. For more info see Prius Palm Mileage Simulator, Toyota Prius - Power Split Device and Graham's Toyota Prius.

    What are the DTCs, if any?

    We have a # of resident repair experts here on PC (not me). Too bad you weren't in Nor Cal, otherwise I'd point you to Luscious Garage | Hybrid Specialists. I've never dealt with them but their posts are insightful.
     
  6. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    @cwerdna: The mechanic thinks the ICE is fine, because the crankshaft turns freely. I can't remember what MG1 and MG2 is - one is the generator, and the other is the hybrid motor, correct? DTC - error codes? Because the 12V battery was practically dead and had to be charged, there were no fault codes available. I've heard of Luscious Garage - in San Fran, right?

    @That_Prius_Car: I don't think I'll be buying another Prius. I rented a 3rd gen during my yearly trip to Florida back in June, and while gas mileage was good, I was not happy with the lack of a touch screen, and found the placement of things awkward. I also don't want to pay the dealer premium either. Right now, I'm thinking about a VW Jetta TDI (and got prequalified at the dealer anyways). If I can get the insurance company to cover costs, then I want to try and do that route, but I'm still not sure what to do yet at this point. Either way, the idea is to get my car sold while I can (it has 126,118 miles on it) before it depreciates further. It's a shame, because it's given me almost 4 years of outstanding service.
     
  7. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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  8. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    It sounds like that diagnosis is a bit premature, especially considering that it hasn't even been out of park yet. Also it provides no explanation for the lack of engine oil. BTW when was the last time you checked the oil?
     
  9. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    Oh, I understand.
    I wasn't too impressed with the 3rd generation as well.
    I had a Barcelona red 2010, but traded it in for a 2007.
    Good luck and sorry to hear about this happening to you!
     
  10. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    @uart: I last checked the oil 3 days prior and I had some. There are no signs of leaks in the garage, so it doesn't make sense.

    @That_Prius: Which package is #5? I have Package 2, but I wish I got at least Bluetooth.
     
  11. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    You don't think it's worth repairing it if it costs $3000? The car should be worth well over $10,000.

    Your least expensive way to go is to repair it. Buying a new car will cost you more than $3000 in the first few minutes of driving it! It's called "drive it off the lot depreciation".
     
  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    DTC = diagnostic trouble codes

    This "hybrid specialist" should be telling you which has gone bad: MG1, MG2 or something else.

    Yes, Luscious Garage is in SF which is too far for you.

    While the ease of use of the MFD equivalent on the 3rd gen has gotten worse, most here on PC (including myself) feel the 3rd gen is overall a superior car vs. the 2nd gen. Sure, I have some gripes about US option packaging, like having to go to Prius IV to get 3-door SKS or having to get nav to get a backup camera. What's the "dealer premium"?

    Why a VW Jetta TDI? You want higher fuel costs, lower gas mileage and poorer reliability? The current gen VW Jettas have taken a significant step backwards in interior materials quality vs. previous gen in effort to keep the price and costs down. There's no touchscreen in a Jetta either, unless you buy nav and the current gens have surprisingly tiny touchscreen. I've never seen integrated factory nav systems w/such a small touchscreen in the center dash area until now.

    If you're willing to take a step back in mileage in trade for way more power (198 hp), how about an Altima Hybrid? Per Nissan Altima Hybrid Offers in Los Angeles Area - 0.0% APR, there are $4500 of incentives on leftover 2010s. Then there's the $2350 Federal tax credit (ends 12/31/10, see Federal Tax Credits for Hybrids) and 10 year/120K mile CVT warranty (see NissanAssist.com) but only on 2010 and before NAHs.
     
  13. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    More information is needed. Any time the triangle comes on, there's likely going to be DTC's set. As soon as these are read the car will essentially tell you what's happening.

    You need TechStream (Toyota's Proprietary Diagnostic Software) to properly read all the codes. Find a shop that has this, (any "Hybrid Specialist" should!) otherwise there will not be enough information to accurately make a diagnosis.

    If you were in the SF area I'd be happy to read the codes for you, but you're not. Maybe you can find a PC'er that has TS close to you.
     
  14. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    -Package #5 has
    -Heated outside mirrors.
    -Smart key system.
    -Back-up camera
    -Aux audio iPod input.
    -VSC (Vehicle Stability Control).
    -6 disc CD changer w/ premium JBL sound w/ 9 speakers and MP3/WMA playback.
    -Bluetooth wireless technology.
    -HID (High Intensity Discharge) headlamps with integrated fog lamps.
    -DVD based navigation system.
    -XM radio (requires subscription).
    -Auto dimming rear view mirror with homelink.
    -Toyota Theft-Deterrent system.

    You would have to get package #3 if you wanted bluetooth. Package #3 also has:
    -Auto dimming rear view mirror with homelink.
    -6 disc CD changer w/ JBL premium sound w/ 9 speakers and MP3/WMA playback.
    -XM radio.
    -Back-up camera.
    -Smart key system.
    -VSC (Vehicle Stability Control).
    -Heated outside mirrors.
    and everything your package #2 has.
     
  15. born2pdl

    born2pdl Junior Member

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    You've probably considered the option of selling off your damaged car and buying the nicest low miles gen II Prius you can, say for $15k for example.
     
  16. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    I've thought before of buying another Gen II, but I've also thought against it. My car has been fairly reliable, but a lack of features has been a small problem.

    As for dealer premiums, when I bought it, the dealer insisted on $5000 above sticker because of the demand for fuel efficient vehicles (and gas ultimately rose to $4.49/ga within the year). I got my dealer to do $3,000, but everyone else I tried was insistent on this ridiculous markup. Even now, some dealers still have a markup, and it's not as easy to finance a used car, along with the fact that I've been burnt on used Toyotas in the past.

    As for the TDI being fuel inefficient, I don't know - I've talked to several people who know friends who have them or own one themselves and say they get 37-45 on average. I'm lucky to get 41 on my car when it was still working. In the last year, my mileage fell about 5-7mpg (I keep logs for each fill up from day one). I also found the TDI to be more fun to drive than my Prius (not to say it wasn't fun to drive, because it was).

    @David Beale: Do you know someone who'd take it off my hands for $10K? It has 126,118 miles on it, and the body is in fair condition. I honestly don't think anyone would really pay more than $3K over what Kelley Blue Book says it's worth, but I could be wrong.

    @cwerdna: My rental car is a NAH. It's actually a nice car - leather seats, bluetooth that actually works, Bose stereo (that's really weak on bass, but still sounds good). Maybe it's just because it's a rental, but at speeds over 70mph, the car starts making a really bad pulsating sound in the rear. Almost makes me think the tire is about to blow or something. I'm getting about 30.8mpg on the car since I got it, which is okay, but I'm still hesitant about another hybrid, only because I don't want to deal with the hybrid battery, motor, generator, inverter, and other extra parts that are exorbitantly expensive to fix when they do break (despite being designed to last for high mileage conditions).
     
  17. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Ok ok, but what about the current problems. Do you have any updates on what's the issue with the car? Its very unusual to lose most of your engine oil in three days. I't very strange to conclude that MG2 has failed before reading any codes or even getting the car out of park! This whole thing is very strange so please let us know if you get any updates.
     
  18. pEEf

    pEEf Engineer - EV nut

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    $10k for that many miles with only a "fair" body and it's got a (potentially) serious problem? I seriously doubt it!

    KBB shows a "good" one (assumed to be running ok) is $8,120. A "fair" one is only $6,770. I wouldn't pay more than $5k for it with an "unknown" problem.

    You are much better off financially by repairing it then selling it! Selling a car with a problem is going to mean you lose $.
     
  19. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Exactly! I have my doubts about this "hybrid specialist".

    As for "premium", find another dealer. Per 2010 Toyota Prius optional equipment at Edmunds, I put in 90024 zip code and it says Edmunds TMV on a 2010 Prius II $21,820 w/dest charge which is lower than the MSRP is $23,560 and invoice is $22,192. Forget the 2nd sticker (markup above MSRP) I've seen some dealers put on. I've always ignored them. People who pay that for cars that aren't rare or in high demand or in tight supply are nuts or uninformed.

    I went to CarsDirect.com -- America's #1 way to buy cars and finance online! (put in 90024, 2010 Prius II) and their price is $22,005. The means, you should be able to get that price w/o any effort or haggling.

    As for VW TDI efficiency, take a look at Fuel Sipper Smackdown 2: Which Car Gets the Best Fuel Economy? and Most fuel-efficient cars, for example. Diesel also overall costs more, most of the year and is less readily available. Right now, it's at a point where it's a lot more in CA (Daily Fuel Gauge Report--national, state and local average prices for gasoline, diesel and E-85.). How does $3.43/gal for diesel sound vs. $3.16/gal for regular unleaded? In addition to the VWs have inferior reliability and the TDI is a very dirty car despite the so-called "clean diesel" moniker.

    I think there's something wrong w/your rental. My mom's NAH (which I've driven a bunch) has no problems at higher speeds.

    Regarding those "extra parts", well, Prius brakes last forever. It has no starter, no alternator and transmission has no clutch packs nor torque converter. The transmission only has a single planetary gearset is way less complex than an automatic. The 3rd gen Prius also has no drive belts as the water pump became electric.

    Since you're in CA, looking at my 06 Prius' warranty booklet, it says under hybrid system, the "generator", "motor", "inverter with converter" are all covered by the CA emission control warranty (specifically parts lists: long-term emission defect warranty) which is 15 years/150K miles. The HV battery is covered for 10 years/150K miles. If either MG is really bad (it seems rather unlikely given the vague info we're getting from you), you ought to yank your car now from this "specialist" now and go to a dealer unless you like throwing your $ out the window.
     
  20. pkhoury

    pkhoury Proud TDI owner

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    @uart - Off topic, but is your dog in the picture a German Shepherd? I adopted one 4 months ago; unfortunately he sheds a lot and it shows on the car's carpet. :(

    @peef: I still don't know what to do yet, but 90% chance, I'm going to fix it and sell it.