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Hybrid sales - July 2009

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Aug 7, 2009
  2. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Member

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    Am I reading it correctly; the Prius at roughly 19,000, is killing the Hondas -Insight 2300, and Civic 1000 at about 3300 total?

    Hard to believe that Honda is taking such a beating with their cars selling for a bit less and getting very close to Prius FE.

    Charlie
     
    #2 phoebeisis, Aug 7, 2009
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was noticing four distinct groups:

    • market leader, gone mainstream - Prius, ~20,000/mo.
    • main hybrid market - the second group, ~2,000/mo.
    • present - the third group, ~200/mo.
    • luxury - the fourth group, ~20/mo.
    The Malibu is the 'odd man out' and may be in transition.

    Now this was a unique month with new models fully available:

    • 2010 Prius
    • Ford Fusion
    • Honda Insight
    We'll get a better picture in October and November when the 'new model' effect is no long present.

    Another 'odd man' is the Lexus RX400h. We don't chat about it much but look at the numbers. For luxury hybrids, it is their market leader.

    Sometime later this weekend I'll try to plot 'price performance' for the different hybrids. This may give us some clues as to the relative impact of price versus performance in hybrid sales. Personally, I'm thinking performance trumps price if nothing else by looking at the members of the 3d group, ~200/mo.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #3 bwilson4web, Aug 7, 2009
  4. rcsting

    rcsting Toyota Fanatic

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    #4 rcsting, Aug 7, 2009
  5. Indyking

    Indyking Happy Hyundai owner...

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    What really surprises me is that the Camry hybrid is pretty close to the Fusion hybrid on sales for July. I guess that must be explained by a reliability issue, because honestly, the Camry hybrid is NO match for the Fusion hybrid, not even close. The Fusion crushes the Camry in most (if not all) aspects except reliability. Also, I think there is a whole cultural effect on people that buy hybrids, they just trust on Toyota more than anybody else, and I don't blame anybody for that!

    I personally think that the Camry, hybrid or not, is the most overrated car in the market right now. I recently helped a friend to decided between the Accord and Camry (non-hybrid); we went shopping and test driving together and the Accord is just a very clear winner in most aspects, without mentioning the cool sporty look of the Accord compared to the "elderly" Camry style. No wonder I was reading yesterday that the main worry from Toyota right now is that their best selling car, the Camry, is progressively dipping strong on sales and may for the first time get behind the Accord on August. The standard Fusion is working its way up to beat it too in the near future if Toyota does not promote drastic changes to it but I see that not much has changed for the 2010 model…
     
    #5 Indyking, Aug 7, 2009
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Civic hybrid is doing very bad. Sale is lower than the Altima hybrid, Highlander hybrid and even the Luxury SUV RX450h.
     
    #6 usbseawolf2000, Aug 7, 2009
  7. 1SMUGLEX

    1SMUGLEX I love the smug!

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    I think both the Accord/Camry look odd/good in a odd way. The Accord interior trumps the Camry but I'll take the Camry ergonomics.

    A Camry hybrid gets what 34 MPG city/highway. It trumps any non hybrid Camry/Accord to me. They are family cars. Saying an Accord is cool/sporty is like saying squirrel toes are tasty.

    The reason the Camry sales are dipping is not b/c of the sedan. Its b/c they have discontinued the Solara and there is no more production wheras the Accord coupe continues to sell (not to mention the Accord coupe is superior to the older Solara coupe).

    The Fusion hybrid is superb.
     
    #7 1SMUGLEX, Aug 7, 2009
  8. Midpack

    Midpack Member

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    Great chart. Everyone has commented on activity at the top, what surprises me is the bottom! Imagine selling 20-30-40 units per month like the Aura, LS600h and GS450h or even what's shown as the 3rd tier group at 100-300? They would have to be getting killed on margins on a model with unit sales that low, no place to make up the costs to setup to produce them. Their accountants must be furious...

    But all hail the Prius, the clear winner.
     
    #8 Midpack, Aug 7, 2009
  9. bluetwo

    bluetwo Relevance is irrelevant

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    Props to the Prius no matter what people say about it. Toyota has definitely made Honda look like a mere wannabe in the world of hybrids.

    I can't help but follow in anticipation to see if Honda can catch up in the coming years though. This is where anyone can feel free to blast me for being an old Honda-head on a Toyota forum. It's not so much about brands to me though as it is making a smart decision for the long run and big picture. This guy might even buy a Toyota that isn't an eight-six one day. :D
     
    #9 bluetwo, Aug 7, 2009
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Please understand I'm not trying to 'blast' anyone but share an engineering point of view:

    • IMA - does an excellent job of improving the low-end torque and power of a small displacement engine. It allows a smaller displacement engine perform as if it had ~25% more displacement. This is not a trivial problem to solve and Honda did a good job.
    • IMA competes with diesels - I'm expecting to see the IMA hybrids being mileage competition with diesels like the Jetta TDI. The reason is the IMA performs like a larger displacement gas engine but because of the smaller size, with the fuel efficiency of the large displacement diesels.
    There is a place for IMA type hybrids and the Honda looks much better than the BAS GM models. So I would suggest joy that the IMA Civic and Insights are in the mainstream, hybrid groups. They have merit although not for my family.

    GOOD LUCK!
    Bob Wilson
     
    #10 bwilson4web, Aug 7, 2009
  11. emd

    emd New Member

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    I could be totally wrong, but I *think* that they stopped producing the Civic Hybrids for model year 2009, so possibly there actually aren't that many on the lot to sell? So when the 2010 models come out then perhaps sales will go up?
     
    #11 emd, Aug 7, 2009
  12. fred garvin

    fred garvin New Member

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    i don't think you fully understand the words "very close to".

    the combined mileage is 42/41 for the civic/insight (2009 epa)
    the combined for the 2010 Prius is 50

    the prius is 19%/22% higher - roughly one fifth higher - that is not "very close to".

    I compared the 2010 prius (whats now being sold mostly) to the 2009 hondas (again i believe what is being sold now)
     
    #12 fred garvin, Aug 7, 2009
  13. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Given the fact the Gen2 Prius was the hybrid sales leader by a fair margin and my opinion that the Gen3 Prius is remarkably improved in power,front seats and looks with better fuel economy, the Gen3 Prius is going to ....

    Kick butt :cheer2:
     
    #13 cycledrum, Aug 7, 2009
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