"Hybrid Sales Stall"

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by massparanoia, Apr 3, 2012.

  1. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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  2. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Did not stall us from picking the HyCam XLE for my wife this weekend, it will arrive in 4 weeks. Stall this, economy!
     
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  3. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    The author of this article does not have his facts right. Toyota & Lexus alone sold over 38,000 hybrids in March. I think the author of this article needs to go back and check his data.
     
  4. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    March 2012:
    Prius v 4,937
    Prius c 4,875
    Prius Plug-in 891
    Prius liftback 18,008
    Prius total: 28,711 (only 4,700 better than the previous Prius best in March 2007)
    Toyota Camry Hybrid 5,400 (oh, is that another record?)
    Highlander Hybrid 611.

    Insight, CR-Z and Civic Hybrid were up on February. I've written it before: you can't look at market share on a month-by-month basis. Just keep watching the hybrid numbers: they keep going up.
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    The author, AnnaMaria Andriotis, told her readers about a year ago that "Now is the time to buy a home". Those that followed her brain storm discovered that (Nation wide) over the last year, their realty investment went down in value THOUSANDS, each month over the last year. Maybe she doesn't count on people writing down her pearls of wisdom. ;)

    But best of all - I DO like it when she yammers on about "return on investment" ... that it may take 4 years to 'recover' ... to make a "return on investment" for a hybrid. Yet she fails to tell her readers the amount of years you have to wait for the return on investment of a Harley ... or a Silverado ... or a Vette ... or a Town Car. Or did I miss that ... Hopefully the "return on investment" for my next 4x4 pickup will be enough to offset her bad realty advice.

    .
     
  6. HyperFX

    HyperFX NIMFY (not in my front yard)

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    Last time I checked, I was gassing up my sports car 3 times a week on premium fuel averaging out to $120 a week just for gas. Now with the Prius, it's only $30 a week for gas on premium fuel<-- personal preference, not required. (imagine if I had used regular octane fuel).

    Sorry to say but my friend has a corolla and to obtain the magical 40 mpg, you would really need to hypermile. On a Prius, I still obey speed limits, but drive with the pace of the traffic averaging 52 mpg (real world driving, not hypermiling). Now you show me a non hybrid vehicle that can do that in real world driving in the USA, I will detract my statement.

    The individuals who buy the luxurious hybrids $100,00+ are not worried about recuperating their money. They are taking responsibility for the environment and also want a technologically advanced machine in the process. Who wants "gas only" powered vehicles? That is so last year... :cool:
    Thanks for listening to my rant.
     
  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    First, lets drop these idiotic notions at the source

    Will Higher Gas Prices Boost Hybrid, EV Sales? - Edmunds.com

    Which does some really questionable comparisons, doing a hack job against hybrids. Does that corola turn off my engine at stop lights? Can I put my bike in it? If you sold the car after 5 years would it have a positive payback? These figures were done before this months or last months figures were in, with hybrids and plug ins gaining market share this month, its obvious some don't share edmunds aanlysis.

    I got to the article by remembering the forbes one linking and paraphrasing it, with this advice, its not just about the money.
    With Gas Prices Rising, Should You Buy a Hybrid or EV? - Forbes

     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    The author confused 'Prius family sales' with 'hybrid sales.'

    TMS hybrid sales in the US in 3/2012 were ~ 38k, and that is about 1/2 of the US hybrid market. So total hybrid sales were ~ 76k, or 5.42%, not 2.1% the author wrote.

    Ah, I see cycledrum pointed out the error too :)
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I'm more than ok with money arguments when it comes to purchases. Like it or not, we DO live in a market economy that does not account for externalized costs.

    Unfortunately, the money arguments are often bogus. If a car that is expected to last 10 - 20 years has recouped all of its capitalization delta earlier than 10 years, it is *cheaper* than the alternative car. This is seen in the monthly payment, and it is seen in the resale value.

    People are cool buying insurance, but cannot understand the value of buying a hedge against rising fuel prices.

    People 'get' the argument of buying local, but cannot grasp the damage that results from exporting petro-dollars.

    The illogic is pervasive
     
  10. Rybold

    Rybold globally warmed member

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    I have a Corolla. Normal hypermiling provides me about 37-38mpg. Extreme hypermiling gets me up to 43mpg.
    When I rented a 2010 Prius a few weeks ago, for three days on my normal 98-mile per day round trip commute, driving with traffic, in power mode the entire time, and an occasional flying by a slow SUV :D, I averaged 48mpg.
     
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  11. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    2/3 of the commenters in link above are knuckle-dragging morons. I did cost only comparo between 1.8L auto Matrix and Pri two, $4,315 cost diff.

    wouldn't let me post again,but at mere $4/gal over next 8 years and assuming Pri battery bonked at 101k miles, still make up $1,750 towards battery.

    Driving 151k mi in Pri nets $4,745 towards battery replacement. The next 151k miles would pocket something like $5k after battery replacement.

    Not counting difference in resale value nor Prius having USB, bluetooth, smartkey, push button start and less brake repair costs.

    this article is from Wall Street Journal?

    Enjoy your old fashioned cars Smart Money readers. haha
     
  12. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Well I can say that when I used to "hypermile" in my Grand Cherokee, it would net me an average of about 16 mpg. Now when I drive the Prius I average about 50mpg without breaking a sweat. Break that down over the roughly 30,000 miles per year I drive and I'll take the Prius thank you very much.
     
  13. Danny Hamilton

    Danny Hamilton Active Member

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    ???
     
  14. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    The facts and figures are from edmunds, I posted a link to that source. The writer here just repackaged the same bad information. I originally read it in forbes, and they at least added some decent content to the bad estimates:D
     
  15. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    A poor comparison, given that it's appreciably larger than a Corolla. People still are in denial that it's a midsize :)

    Anyway, I thought hybrid sales were doing great recently.

    Further to the point above indeed the "payback" can be misleading. If I pay $4000k more for a hybrid and it takes 4 years to make up $4000 in gas savings, the pay back is not four years--not unless my hybrid is now worth not a penny more than the gas vehicle I compare it to. And yet, it will be worth more--let's say $1500 more, therefore the pay back is only actually 2.5 years. Now, let's say the real, true payback is 7 years. Is it worth it? Probably, as that's equivalent to a 10% return on investment annually.

    This gets at the heart of total cost of ownership of a car, something I dare say 90% of the public cannot effectively calculate. And that's being very kind.
     
  16. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    It's a large compact, not a true mid-size. The size value of the Prius is really in the cargo space and dimensions.

    Basically, journalists who don't like hybrids decided completely to ignore the supply issues of 2011 and said "hybrid sales were flat".

    They also keep looking at 1 month market share or even 12 month market share despite the replacement cycle being up to 10 years long. Yes, demand depends on gas prices, so compare to the last time gas prices were this high. Oh look, sales are at record levels.

    The Prius family has been selling, the new, improved Camry Hybrid is selling, The CT200h is selling, the HyunKi hybrids have been selling and there's consistently been 1000 to 2000 LEAF and Volts being sold and there are no incentives on HEVs now. Honda and Ford are down, but the sales have been more than offset and this is all in the face of improved mileage in conventional vehicles.

    Hybrid consideration is at a record high. Higher gas prices improve payback. More hybrids are sold.
     
  17. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I don't know, but why would that surprise you ? The WSJ is a propaganda outlet for republicanism, courtesy of its acquisition by Murdoch some years ago.

    Hybrids have been linked to 'liberals' forever, but when they became part of Obama's green economy vision, the WSJ turned rabid. I gather that pieces of the old WSJ are still employed, to obscure the general propaganda overhaul, but that is relative: the news now is heavily biased and selected through the editor's desk, while the op-ed is complete garbage. As you are witnessing.
     
  18. billnchristy

    billnchristy Active Member

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    It is barely smaller than my parent's Milan inside and equally as big in the trunk/cargo area.

    If that's not midsize then what is? It has to be a boat?
     
  19. massparanoia

    massparanoia Active Member

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    Just like the New York Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Sun Times, Los Angelas Times, Baltimore Sun, etc etc is a propaganda outlet for liberalism. But all that aside to the WSJ's defense this article was posted by an idiot blogger and we all know the web is full of them.
     
  20. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney EditProfOptInfoCustomUser Title

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    I have a Prius.
    I have a Civic.
    I've ridden in Camrys.

    It's a little roomier than our 2008 Civic, but not much. It's not even close to a Camry and that's not one of the largest mid-size cars. I classify it with the Civic as a large compact.
     
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