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Hybrid Types ...for dummies

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by john1701a, Oct 11, 2005.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    This image shows the current look of this brand new one-page document for us.

    [Broken External Image]:http://john1701a.com/prius/images/Hybrid-Type_Full.jpg

    As of this initial message, only the illustrations for the "FULL" hybrid type has been completed. Next will be to fill in the text... just a few simple paragraphs to provide the basics. Please feel free to contribute ideas about what it should say.

    Later, I would like to do the same for the "ASSIST" hybrid type ...to objectively show why we prefer the greater flexibility that the "FULL" design provides.

    http://john1701a.com/prius/hybrid-type_full.htm is a link to the webpage that will host the final document. Currently, it provides a draft copy of the PDF available for downloading.
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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  3. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    Why not include the wheel also so they'll have an idea where the output is. Full hybrid will have an arrow from PSD and MG2 to wheel. Assist type will connect transmission to wheel.
     
  4. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    I hesitate to bring this up but will you include the "GM hybrid" truck design and explain why it is not really a hybrid?
     
  5. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The "Assist" document has text added now.

    Both have the image & arrow for the tire now.

    Documents to note GM hybrids may be created later. The one for the current "hybrid" would be rather interesting. There would be no arrow connecting the electric motor to the transmission... clearly showing how it isn't really a hybrid. The other would be to note their "two-mode" design. But based on the only image published on it so far, I cannot figure out exactly how the 3 clutches and 2 planetary gear-sets interact with each other. Of course, that would help point out the elegant simplicity of HSD.
     
  6. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    Wouldn't you have to connect it tho? It does generate energy via regenerative braking...
     
  7. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    The flow of energy from the transmission to the battery is only one way. The motor essentially acts as a large alternator/starter that allows for the engine to restart after an idle-stop, and the battery stores energy for those idle stops. None of that energy assists the engine during acceleration or propels the vehicle at all.

    Really the Silverado represents implementing one feature that shouldn't necessarily belong strictly to hybrids : idle-stop. That should be implemented in all cars. Beyond that and the fact that it has a battery, it bears little resemblence to assist or full hybrids.
     
  8. brandon

    brandon Member

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    Moments ago I was just trying to describe the difference between a full hybrid and an assist hybrid. This document should prove quite helpful! Excellent work-in-progress.

    The question came up when my coworker read the article on the new 2006 list of fuel-efficient vehicles.
     
  9. landstander

    landstander darling no baka

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    Nice, but just for the record I absolutely hate those idiotic "I said RIGHT click" dialogs. Fortunately, they're essentially useless anyway... absolutely trivial to bypass.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    If you have a better way of encouraging offline reuse rather than redownloading the same copy again, please suggest it.
     
  11. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    Create a download link, and point to a servlet or perl script. From there, just set the content type by hand, read the file, and write it to output, then close the stream. There's also a header you have to set, if you want me to look it up I will. This will force a download.
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    If you have suggestion about the webpage interface, please provide it via a personal message or start another thread.

    This thread should only be used to help develop the content of the "Hybrid Types" documents.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    And yes, I did notice how your advice was exactly the opposite of what I asked for. My request was for a way to *PREVENT* downloading the same copy again. You responded with a way to *FORCE* a download every time, the very thing I didn't want to happen.

    Remember, you were the one that encouraged the creation of these documents... http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=11170&st=42 ...so don't sabotage that effort by cluttering the thread with off-topic chatter.
     
  14. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

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    And that's different than your solution how? I can right click and download as much as I want. You could track downloads with a session cookie and prevent multiple downloads, if you want to be that big brotherish.

    I'm not sabotaging any efforts, dude. Someone else brought it up.
     
  15. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    John,

    What is your reason for connecting tire to PSD and not to 50kW motor? It looks like ICE power is split into three different ways.

    Suggestion: Use two different color arrows to indicate mechanical or electric power flow. This might make it too complicated and hope this does not end up looking like your energy flow chart.
     
  16. davedog

    davedog Member

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    off topic, how do you prevent clicking and require right-click save-as? =)
     
  17. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Because there is no direct connection from the tire to the motor. All motion passes through the PSD.

    I sure wish I would have created those illustrations sooner.

    Makes you wonder what other perception discoveries we'll end up making, eh?
     
  18. landstander

    landstander darling no baka

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    You don't... there are 1001 ways to bypass most (if not all) such schemes. Feel free to try anyway, tho.
     
  19. Norm611

    Norm611 Junior Member

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    John,

    My understanding is that the 50kW motor is geared directly to the wheels. If the motor rotates, the wheels will also. The PSD is just a spur gear differential. It has 3 inputs/outputs, the ICE, the 10kW generator/motor, and the 50kW motor/generator & wheels. Both the wheels & the 50kW MG are connected to the planet carrier, hence the PSD cannot change the relative speeds of wheels & 50kW motor.

    Norm
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That "connection" reference bad wording on my part... hence asking for word-smithing on this thread.

    Consulting with the repair manual (page 976 of 4007), I can see that step-up gear. However, MG2 is still tied directly to PSD activity anyway... which is what I am trying to show in the most "for dummies" way.

    In other words, since both the PSD & MG2 are moved by the tires identically when braking, how would I show that logical flow without showing a physical connection?

    Also, keep in mind the need to be consistent between two documents. All diagrams have some degree of simplification for better understanding... which is why I left out the Inverter and Booster and ECUs and 12-volt and MG3 and A/C. And of course, I'm trying to avoid infringing any copyrights too.