Hydrogen vehicles dirtier than gas cars

Sad part is that most folks will never know ... nor will they care to know that truth.

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Anyone who looks beyond the hype of hydrogen will quickly realise it's a farce. No matter what the source of energy is, it will always be more efficient to turn it into electricity than it will be to create hydrogen and then turn it back into electricity.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there GreenGuy33

 

It's not a farce, it comes from thinking based on an ideal.

Ideal: no tailpipe pollution, long range, fast recharge, sustainable fuel.

Hydrogen fuel cell fits the bill...

... once the minor problems of storage and generation are solved (before battery storage and charging technology improves to the point that nobody finds BEVs limiting for cars and before biodiesel production technology improves that the diesel supply won't be a problem for larger vehicles).

 

I am in no way being rude. Was "minor" meant to be sarcastic?

The *only* thing I know about hydrogen vehicles is what I saw on Planet Green's documentary about the GM EV1 vehicle. I seem to remember (and I may be completely wrong), that they basically said hydrogen vehicles are still very, very, far away from being made available to the public. They are extraordinarily expensive, the whole thing like you said about storage of hydrogen, and it takes more energy to make hydrogen then you get from it.

The documentary made it sound like politicians pushed for hydrogen vehicles because they knew it would take forever to develop and keep our gas cars on the road longer.

Is my info way off base?

I am all for EVs. I wish they could solve the "gas station" problem. I'll happily keep an EV for all my local driving, and a HEV for my highway drivings.

 

Zero pollution from the tailpipe would be ideal. But hydrogen is not sustainable, nor is it a fuel. It's a storage medium, much like a battery, that allows energy produced in one place to be transported and used in another place. The problem with hydrogen - and it is by no means minor - is that it uses more energy, not less, and produces more pollution. Sure, only water and warm air comes out the tailpipe, but you have to look at the whole process and consider the overall efficiency. If the hydrogen is produced using the present methods of burning hydrocarbons, we'll use even more oil and coal than we do now. If hydrogen were produced solely by sustainable methods of geothermal, wind and solar, it would be cleaner, but it still wouldn't be as efficient as charging batteries. That's why I say hydrogen is a farce. It simply doesn't make sense from an energy and efficiency viewpoint.

But, if the big money people can generate even more wealth, all the while fooling the sheeple into thinking we're being 'green'...

 

Bingo!

Any energy that take more energy to produce than it delivers is a loser.

See also tar sands "oil".

 

Obviously we can all see that. Why are people still dumping money into developing hydrogen fueled vehicles?

 

That's a good question. Maybe we don't all get it.

 

I believe it is a similar economic self interest the leads folks to believe that either they can profit from a given technology at best, or not have to change behaviors and possibly pay more at worst. Just as in global warming denial, it is pretty simple to follow the money!

 

You mean the billions and billions of dollars that would be made off of cap and trade if the warmists successfully convince our scientifically illiterate legislators with fraudulent science?

 

Can we keep the climate change 'discussion' in its own thread? This one's about hydrogen.

 

Well, hydrogen cars are currently 1,000,000+ dollars. The fuel currently costs more to make and uses more energy than using gasoline. There is no infrastructure. When the infrastructure is in place, we will be at the mercy of whomever is making it just as we are with petrol. The range is NOT GOOD. I think you can go a bit over 100 miles, which is achievable with batteries.

Finally, hydrogen cars are essentially electric cars with hydrogen being the energy storage. Even a hydrogen car has a battery for capturing regenerative brakes. Long story short, unless hydrogen can be made much cheaper and cleaner in the future, and more can be stored in a vehicle.. it is not happening. I don't see the point in wasting the money on such a far-fetched technology when other options are already feasible.

 

Sorry,, Hiyo you are right!

 

So I guess the big question is what kind of technology is a possibility for giving cross-country range to EVs? How long should a "fill up" take with an EV? How long is too long?

 

And its easier to tax at the pump.
EVs scare the government as well.

 

Your voice sounds funny when you talk about hydrogen.

Tom