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Hypothetical Range Extended Prius PHEV vs Volt

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by sipnfuel, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. sipnfuel

    sipnfuel New Member

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    Do you think it will be possible to range extend a Prius PHEV using an after-market plug-in battery pack such as an Enginer battery pack with additional converters?

    If so, the EV range might be more comparable to the Volt (35-50 miles) and also you would have the advantage of higher MPG in a Prius once EV mode is done (50+ mpg Prius Hybrid Mode vs 37mpg Volt CS Mode)

    Ignoring tax credits and warranty issues, it might be more cost effective to range-extend a Prius PHV. However, one must look at the reliability and life-span of an 3rd-party supplemental battery pack.
     
    #1 sipnfuel, Jan 21, 2011
  2. Joe 26

    Joe 26 Member

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    Then you may start to get into the problem that the Volt has, hauling around the extra weight of the batteries and converters for the extended EV range while in hybrid mode. This is what Toyota looked at when deciding on the EV range of only 13mi. It would certainly drop the hybrid mileage, maybe not to Volt level, but certainly lower than a standard Prius.
     
    #2 Joe 26, Jan 21, 2011
  3. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    A related question is: How many users will drive more than 15 miles and less than about 100 miles per day?

    For the first 15 miles the Prius get better 'electric' mileage' than the Volt.
    From 15 to 35 miles the Volt is on cheaper electricity while the Prius PHV is on more expensive gas.
    From 35 miles on the Prius is getting 50 MPG on Regular gas while the Volt is getting 37 MPG on Premium gas. (My math had the Prius cheaper after about 100 miles)
    Less than 15 miles per day, the Prius PHV uses less electricity.
    Greater than 15 miles and less than 100 miles a day, the Volt is cheaper due to longer electric range.
    Greater than 100 miles a day, the Prius PHV is cheaper due to better MPG on cheaper gas.

    If you can recharge both cars at work, as well as at home, the math is the same but the numbers double.

    I am not sure I would consider more battery packs, but the Prius PHV has some commutes it excels at stock.
     
    #3 JimboPalmer, Jan 21, 2011
  4. sipnfuel

    sipnfuel New Member

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    Joe 26 > You bring up some good points.

    I also think Toyota looked at the supply & demand of a 50 mile EV range PHEV and decided it would really price out a lot of people. This is, however, the path that GM took with the Volt. I think this factor alone was more important than the extra weight of additional batteries.

    I actually think the Volt is very useful for people whose commute is approximately 15-35 miles one-way. With the opportunity to recharge during work, the possibility of hardly ever using fuel comes into play. That has real appeal to some people.

    Actually this is the range of my commute. However, the $41k price-tag of a Volt (disregarding tax credits) still does not provide an easy path for payback in fuel cost savings. With docs & taxes, the purchase price goes to $45k. For $22,000 diff in price @ $4 per gallon (averaging in fuel price increases), I can buy 5,500 gallons of fuel. At the regular hybrid Prius 50mpg, I can go 275,000 miles -- much more than the reasonable life of the vehicle.

    Did I do that math correctly?
     
    #4 sipnfuel, Jan 21, 2011
  5. Tekdeus

    Tekdeus Shifted to Green

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    I'm surprised Toyota isn't offering an "upgraded range" add-on battery pack option. Why not give consumers a choice of range instead of forcing us to look at aftermarket options? Upgraded stereo is an option, why not an upgraded EV range? These automakers really seem to underestimate how tired many people are of having to burn gasoline, myself included.
     
    #5 Tekdeus, Jan 21, 2011
  6. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    The modular design of PHV Prius can allow different range options.
     
    #6 usbseawolf2000, Jan 22, 2011
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    A PHEV (If I'm understanding what I read about it correctly) will burn some gas....in fact, depending on your commute it may burn an amount only slightly less (25%?) than your G3.
    My commute is 10-miles, on surface roads with an average speed (limit!) of 35-mph.
    Try to do it at 35-45 mph every morning, and the other commuters will hunt you down and burn your car! The average speeds on these roads are closer to 60mph, despite the ocasional culling by LEOs.

    Even if I had the roads to myself, the PHEV will still have to warm itself up in the morning and in the evening, which will take 1-2 miles of my 10-mile commute, so.....you're going to be burning gas any way you slice it.

    If Toyota does it right, you should be able to take a 50-mpg G3 and leg that out to about 75-85mpg for us short commuters---based on the numbers from some of the bolt-on kits out there. Maybe more----I don't have any hours in type.

    Will this justify the additional costs???

    I do not know. I'll do the mental gymnastics on that if/when the PHEV becomes commercially available and the price stabilizes.

    EDIT: It's going to be when....not if....sorry bout that!
    :cool:
     
    #7 ETC(SS), Jan 28, 2011
  8. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    The PHV Prius (not yet in production) does not warm up the engine unless the end of AER is approaching...
     
    #8 ksstathead, Jan 28, 2011
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Cool!!!
    I'll factor that into my calcu-guessing!!! :cool:
     
    #9 ETC(SS), Jan 28, 2011
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