Featured Hyundai IONIQ - Prius competitor?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by GasperG, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Apparently there are two technical approaches: Can you convert a diesel truck to run on natural gas? | wwcc

    Unlike other diesel conversion systems that “piggyback” on an existing diesel engine, Omnitek converts the diesel engine to a spark-ignition engine, which allows them to completely switch to natural gas. These systems are referred to as dedicated natural gas conversions.


    The alternative approach, known as dual fuel systems, retains the diesel fuel system to act as a liquid spark plug. Dual fuel trucks start on diesel fuel and continue to use a reduced amount of diesel fuel throughout their duty cycles. As the truck begins to pull a load, natural gas is injected along with the diesel fuel to propel the truck, significantly reducing the diesel used by the truck.

    Diesel is a liquid so a high-compression, injection makes sense. But compressing natural gas and trying to inject it . . . well that would be a challenge. These two technical approaches make sense.

    Bob Wilson
     
    hill likes this.
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    17,524
    6,802
    54
    Location:
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Thanks Bob. I haven't heard much on co2 reduction based off of the uber shortened life cycle via recycle/crushing these VW's if that's the route (though unlikely) that happens. Considering the cost of the cars, converting to spark plugs & natural gas seems like a lot less cost (nevermind the now-clean-converted VW factor) than destruction.
     
    bwilson4web likes this.
  3. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    4,294
    2,320
    33
    Location:
    Texas
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    So in the mean time, we have another choice to save gas.
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I am OK with doing a natural gas conversion of the cheat diesels.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2014
    3,002
    478
    0
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    It's about substance, not image (to quote Justin Trudeau). Anyone can build a hybrid, and claim it's a competitor to Prius, but no one has achieved the suite of advantages that define the Prius; best mileage, best reliability, best rideability and best comfort for an affordable price.
     
    arescec and mrlebop like this.
  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,071
    3,694
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    +1
    They seem to have done a great job engineering it for a ballance of efficiency and performance. The key was they got variable valve lift for a much lower cost than most of the major car copanies.

    Sure that makes sense.

    Sure also true, but lets be careful here. In the prius application you don't want to use EGR at that high power setting unless it is to reduce NOx. When you are at a high power setting, EGR will have you increase RPM to get similar power output. This will increase both pumping and frictional losses. The max compression is only 9:1, which means detonation can easily be controlled by retarding the spart/or reducing the charge (use late valve closing to drop it to 8:1 or whatever works. In a turbo charged application though these pumping losses and frictional losses are less, and compression can not be reduced as easily. In these applications adding cooled egr is often more efficient than running a rich mixture to reduce NOx formation.
     
  7. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    2,382
    1,303
    0
    Location:
    California, USA
    Vehicle:
    2011 Chevy Volt
    The 2016 Volt has cooled EGR. It is missing the exhaust heat recovery hardware that helps to heat up the engine coolant faster on an engine that has been turned off for awhile. The Prius and 2016 Malibu hybrid have this but it was left off of the Volt to lower costs. It would supposedly add 2 mpg to the EPA estimate if added to the Volt since engines are most efficient when running at the right temperature.
     
    Trollbait and bwilson4web like this.
  8. strongbad

    strongbad Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    170
    47
    0
    Location:
    Driggs, ID
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm looking at the spy photos and the trunk (hatch?) hinge seems to be below the window making the Ioniq a sedan instead of a hatch, I guess. I would much prefer a hatch. I look toward the January reveal with interest.
     
  9. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,071
    3,694
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Cooled egr came from diesels which is why I bought it up. In gasoline cars it makes sense in turbo charged and hybrid vehicles. It cost money, and going turbo or hybrid offers more bang per buck so those should be done first, but then this cooled egr makes a lot of sense.

    Cost and PACs are why we don't have more natural gas running in the US . I think the pickens plan makes a great deal of sense. The picken's people though say they have been blocked in congress. WIthout regulatory help the lack of stations and higher up front cost of natural gas equipment won't gain much traction especially with low diesel prices. The picken's people are working with individual states, and California and Texas are trying to help with the switch.

    The very stinky diesels are over 10 years old. Urea based SCR really do take most of the NOx out of the tailpipe. The Ultralow sulfur diesel allows for better catalytic converters and these scr systems and particulate filters.

    The VW case is special since they corrupted the system, and these pollution control devices are easy to defeat. I don't think the buyers of these cars are the cheaters and converting their cars to natural gas would be punishing them.. The civic natural gas didn't work. To convert the vw's you need big tanks taking up room, reduced performance, and reduced range, along with poor infrastructure in many places. outside of california I don't think they have much pollution impact. Perhaps other measures should be taken. Even inside california other resolution is possible.
    Ignore VW Diesels, Make Company Sell Electric Cars: Tesla CEO Musk, 44 Others
     
  10. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,071
    3,694
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I think there is a trunk too. prius or c-max are there if you want a hatch. Most americans prefer the trunk.
     
  11. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    if it's a trunk, is it a prius fighter?
     
  12. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    24,788
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Oh? Something wrong with that? Just getting them ready for the 'hydrogen highway.' <GRINS>

    Bob Wilson
     
    hill and austingreen like this.
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    13,071
    3,694
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    I don't know how you guys define it, but motortrends blog says trunk and prius fighter. Its just a blog.
    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Caught Completely Uncovered
     
    bisco likes this.
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    good question. i guess the more important point is who can save the most fossil fuel, pollution, soldiers and etc. let the best car win!(y)
     
    frodoz737 likes this.
  15. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    1,624
    602
    0
    Location:
    Mountain West
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Re: Ioniq uncovered:

    Looking at the rear view, I cannot see a line atop the rear glass where a hatchback door would open.

    That said, I had assumed the black area between the tail lights was a lower window like the Prius (split window). Now I am doubting that. I don't think it is a hatchback.
     
    austingreen likes this.
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i think you might be right.
     
    Felt likes this.
  17. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    219
    122
    0
    Location:
    Italy
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    ...............
     
    #157 Maxwell61, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    Felt likes this.
  18. Maxwell61

    Maxwell61 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    219
    122
    0
    Location:
    Italy
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    .............
     
    #158 Maxwell61, Dec 23, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
    strongbad, San_Carlos_Jeff and Felt like this.
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    95,309
    43,206
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    isn't that a hatchback?
     
    Felt likes this.
  20. Felt

    Felt Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    1,624
    602
    0
    Location:
    Mountain West
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Thanks. I withdraw my comment.
     
    bisco likes this.
Loading...