1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

I had a bad day =(

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by geologyrox, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. geologyrox

    geologyrox New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    513
    0
    0
    last week, i had a flat tire on the '96 Camry, and it was time for balancing - one of the tires hit a bumpy harmonic at about 60, and it annoyed me. anyway, i got it replaced and the tires balanced, and was informed that my brakes were scarily in need of replacing. Me being a very young woman, I never get anything fixed at local mechanics just because they say it needs replacing. So I scheduled an appointment for today at the dealer to have the brakes inspected and possibly replaced, along with an alignment. I warned my tech (always the same one, I adore her) that my milage has dropped from 30 to 25-26, and that it could be the winter gas and cold, but I'd appreciate a quick once over. She said no problem.

    Then, the exciting part happened. I mentioned I needed to rent a car, and asked if I'd be able to get a Prius - she toldme she'd find out if their Prius was available, and walked off. She came back, and told me that Enterprise was cheaper. I asked if they had Prii, but they didn't. She asked me, "Why? Do you actually want one?" and I found myself unable to say anything but, "Yes, more than anything!"

    A few minutes later a beautiful red 2005 Prius pulled up, and it was mine for the day (till I picked up my car) for $35. I have never, ever driven a Prius. There haven't been any for me to test drive, and the rental is rarely there, and is only for service customers. I had it all by myself to take me to my nail appointment in Orlando, and then to pick up my kid bothers (lol - gonna leave that mistake in) to take them on their Christmas shopping. I got a phone call about midway through the day telling me that i had about $550 in neccesary repairs (brakes, alignment, and wheel bearing?) to do to make it safe to drive home, and that the folks who replaced my transmission last year had left my axle loose (?) and it had ruined the transmission. She seemed surprised I hadn't heard it - I was too, I drive with the window open and my husband rode with me the other day and didn't notice anything besides the wierd harmonic at highish speeds. She said that I probably shouldn't bother replacing it if I'm planning on selling it - only if I want to keep it. I wanted to cry. The parts won't be in till Tuesday, and I need to drive to pick up Christmas dinner produce and more presents tomorrow, so I've still got the Prius till tomorrow afternoon.

    I'm torn between HEARTBROKEN (mostly this) - i love my camry,and really thought I'd get something for her privately - and EXCITED (at least a bit) - I may be getting a Prius (not magnetic grey, sadly) sooner than expected. We shall see, I guess I plan to get on the waiting list here, and drive the Camry till she dies. If it's May, great - I'll get my color. If it's sooner, I may have to travel a bit to get something quick. Also, she told me I'm unlikely to get a decent trade-in if they put it up on the block, which means I will soon need advice from people who have a little more experience under their belts - I'm hopelessly lost here.

    Am I crazy to think that I'll get to drive this camry for a few months more? I really didn't notice any trouble, aside from the decreased milage. I'm willing to face (another) call to AAA at some random point in the future when the transmission finally just up and dies. For that matter, am I crazy to be so trusting? This woman has taken great care of me (as far as I can tell) and I just plain trust her - but I don't know anything about cars.

    I'll be posting my impressions of the Prius in the Main Forum - I thought this might have been too pancakey.



    On a completely unrelated note, thanks for those who told me previously not to give up on getting both degrees - the honors office was horrified to hear that they were trying to graduate me without my having 4 years to complete all my requirements. They went to bat for me, and my recently denied petition was reviewed and approved - I should be (finally!) graduating this Spring =)
     
  2. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Change always looks scarier from the leading edge. You wouldn't
    mind immediately doubling your mileage, right? Along with the
    numerous other cool advantages you've read about at length around
    here? http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/prius-log/intro.html
    offers a tech-geeky tale of a doubter becoming a devotee, if it's
    any help...
    .
    _H*
     
  3. Jack 06

    Jack 06 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    2,556
    0
    0
    Location:
    Winters, CA: Prius capital of US. 30 miles W of S
    Wow, what a roller-coaster of a post!

    To take the most important (in the long run) first: CONGRATULATIONS :) Glad you're going to get both. (I put $.02 in on the earlier thread.)

    Second, I doubt your tranny is going to fall apart soon. Did you ask her if there was a quick-and-dirty-and-cheap fix she can do to it now, just to keep it from getting worse?

    Third, I hate dealers and their $500 brake jobs (been victimized more than once). You trust her, so I'll let it go at that. I ALWAYS get brakes (and alignments) done at franchised places (like Econo Lube n' Tune here in CA, or Pep Boys) that use certified mechanics. Much less expensive.

    Fourth, how do you like the Prius? What a stroke of good (/bad) luck.

    Fifth: "bothers" :p

    Sixth, you need an even more careful assessment on the tranny. Don't know if you're "done with" your tech, but I'd take it for a second opinion---probably to a franchised tranny place ( like AAMCO). So long as you're not committing yourself to a tranny replacement or rebuild, it's worth even a few more bucks in your situation to get it assessed.

    I'll shut up.
     
  4. geologyrox

    geologyrox New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    513
    0
    0
    Well, the brake job was going to be $120, the alignment $100, but that was before the phone call. The only thing i really know about otherwise that she said had to be fixed involved wheel bearings, and those are the parts that wont be in till tuesday. my being 'done with' the tech will have a lot to do with how the invoice reads at pickup - i'm hoping to beg galaxee for a quick husband glance to see if she's really looking out for me, or using me to pay for christmas presents. she did replace my timing belt for some astronomically low price the first time i went in, i don't know if it's a snooker technique or what =)

    anyways, time will tell, and since it's taking me longer to draw up my initial impressions than i thought, i'll end the suspense - i LOVED the prius!
     
  5. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    760
    6
    0
    Location:
    Vermont, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Ever since I learned on PC that the service writers work on commission, I am extremely wary of what they say I "need" to do. Good for you for being cautious.
     
  6. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    465
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    i'm hauling the laptop home tonight and i'll make sure he reads this post over, geologyrox.

    if anyone knows anything about camrys, it's DH. he has one himself that he's ripped apart multiple times for fun. no. really. there is a bad tranny he's pulling apart sitting outside our back door that i'm not thrilled about.

    manual or auto tranny? and how much do you trust your tech? how much experience do you have with her? (i think it's just plain awesome that she's female but that does not mean automatic trust)

    as far as this kind of thing goes, greenmachine, the tech will likely be in charge of deciding what does and doesn't need to be done. the tech is the one who's pulled the car apart and inspected things carefully (well we hope anyway) and has seen what needs to be done. in this case, it's up to the tech to say 'hey, i noticed this other problem you might want to have fixed' and then it's up to the customer to okay it.

    i guess i can't comment on that dealer's service writers without knowing their system. but DH's team's designated writer gets a portion of whatever services the team does, whether the writer or the tech sells the services.

    anyway, this is getting long so CONGRATS on graduating soon with dual degrees and i'll be back to this tonight with a commentary from a tech.

    (a school update from me: i am considering taking the MS-pharmacology this spring and transferring schools to get my PhD in med chem, having a very bad time here and ready to give up on this university- and science PhD programs are impossible to pull off a successful transfer... will be seeking advice from a med chem PhD when i go back home in Jan.)
     
  7. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2005
    760
    6
    0
    Location:
    Vermont, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    Thanks Galaxee, I always appreciate your thoughtful posts and DH's patient input. :D
     
  8. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    465
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    always glad to be of service. he loves a good diagnostic challenge.

    but there are days i have to um, reinterpret his words after a bad day at work. :lol:
     
  9. aaf709

    aaf709 Ravenpaw of ThunderClan

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2005
    3,862
    18
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    This is how I got to test drive a Prius. My wife's Windstar was in an accident (nobody hurt) and we needed a car for her to rent while the dealer was looking over the damage (this was last January). The dealer recommended Enterprise and we went there. It didn't matter which car, until they said, "We have a Prius." Since we were on a list since Sept '04, we wanted to try that as I hadn't had a test drive yet. We ended up renting it for two weeks, but I was the one driving it. My wife's a technophobe and was happy to drive my father's 1964 Plymouth. :)
     
  10. geologyrox

    geologyrox New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2005
    513
    0
    0
    UNNECCESARY BACKSTORY
    This car is actually my sob story, and it's why I trust my tech, with good reason or not. I had a car before the Camry, paid for myself ($6k for a 97 Altima - I'd never been so proud) and I hydroplaned off I-95 into a retention pond, and the car was totalled without a scratch on her =( MY grandparents got scared to death, and put in another $2k on top of the insurance money and bought (without asking me) a 1996 Camry with 68,000 miles. Their mechanic looked it over and declared it sound.

    Fast forward to last Christmas - she had gone about 50 thousand miles in the last four years, without any major maintenance - just the regular stuff, which I'm VERY good about.

    This story is almost comical - I heard a funny noise while making the three hour weekly commute home. I called my (then fiance) and described it, and he told me it sounded like the wheel bearing, to take the surface roads home, and call him when i got there. The noise got louder and scarier and i made the disturbing observation that it stopped when I kicked the car into neutral at parking lights. I must have called a half dozen times, and all he could tell me is that theres nothing he could do, and to keep driving. This might have been bad advice (we all know I'm trusting) but I did want the car to be closer to home for Christmas repairs, so I kept going. On top of an overpass, my car started making a very, very, very large clenched up sound, and ceased to be in drive. I can't tell you exactly what it was in, but there was forward motion due to intertia alone, from the feel of it. Putting it into neutral let me come to a rest at the side of the road, though putting it back into drive made the clenchy noise again. ::sigh::

    I make a phone call to AAA, and a phone call to my other half. He is appropriately apologetic, informs me that it sounds like my transmission (no *#%^ sherlock) and to sit tight. I should let you guys know that I'm moving home that Christmas, so I have thelast bit of EVERYTHING I OWN crammed into this car. We transfer what we need to, the tow truck arrives, pulls me up the back, and we have him take us to the Pro-Trans transmission place my husbands partner reccomended. We arrive, the tow truck driver fiddles around, cranks up the lift, and my car rolls off the back of the tow truck. Yeah, seriously. The guy is seriously flipped out - he had it in park! He informs me that my transmission might be gone. I feel a tiny bit surrounded by idiots (since we're in the parking lot of a transmission repair place), and I'm nearly catatonic now - I'd had my big huge final presentation for Paleoclimate that morning, followed by the big move home from college, followed by car trouble, followed by MY CAR ROLLING OFF THE TOWTRUCK.

    My car has an aftermarket hitch installed that hits the ground on EVERY bump/incline/ant hill, because it wraps under the exhaust. It appeared to take the blow of the fall (there were gouges in the cement where it hit the ground) but we got his information anyway, just in case. A quick call to AAA said that if anything had happened, all of their contracters have insurance. The transmission guys (and later the dealer) said the car/frame/everything was fine, for the record.

    The transmission folks reccomended a junkyard transmission be put in - I don't know what they charged me, it didn't matter - I had to have the car back because I worked all Christmas season, and it would be *really* expensive to get a last minute holiday rental. So they put one in (~60,000 miles on it as I recall) and I took it straight to the dealer and must have looked pitiful because this grease covered woman came up to me and asked what she could do to help. I asked her to check the transmission to make sure they did a good job, to check the frame to make sure there was no damage, to check the whole darned car to see if it was being held together with silly string... I was rigt around 120,000 miles, and she did the tuneup and replaced my timing belt, and a whole slew of other little diagnostics, and I paid less than $300 - I think it was $287, but I could look it up in my statements if I needed to. She did tell me I needed my motor mounts (I think) replaced, and then asked "You told me about the junkyard tranny, why didn't you mention the junkyard engine?"

    I didn't cry (at least not in front of her) but she sat down with me and looked at some numbers. The car had been serviced at that dealer right up until 68,100 miles - 400 miles before I bought it from the honda dealership across the street. By all accounts the car was perfect up until I bought it, but it came with an engine that said "Runs Good" in blue paint marker. I had noticed this before, but we've established that I'm naive. Neither of us have a CLUE why the engine would have been replaced in that 400 miles. So I had just put a junkyard transmission into a junkyard engine with unknown life, all in a 120,000 mile camry. ::sigh:: I brought it in again a little later, and we had the mounts replaced - don't remember the cost. She did NOT notice the 'floppy axle'(?) at this point -this kind of bothers me.


    START HERE FOR CURRENT PROBLEMS
    This year, all I was having trouble with were my tires. I got into a bad very bumpy harmonic at speeds between 60 and 75 or so. I rarely take the highway anyway, so I put it all off till after Christmas. I checked the tire pressures (one was a little low, so I added some air) and went on my way. Then I came out one morning, that low tire was flat, and my husband noticed wear towards the outside of the tire (I don't ask many questions, since I don't understand it anyway) and we filled it up, brought it down to the goodyear tires and service place, and had the two wheels replaced, all of them balanced, and asked for the alignment (4 wheels for the camry). The man there called later and informed me I needed new brakes and 'offered' to change them. I told him I was trading in the car and I'd rather he not bother. I picked up the car, and he hadn't done the alignment becuse I was selling the car. I'm feeling very low and almost kicked. I made an appointment for the dealer this week, and I still don't have my car back.

    In answer to all the questions galaxees husband asked:
    *135,000 miles on the car
    *12 months, 10 days on the transmission - about 15,000 miles.
    *We got it at Pro-Trans, because it was the only reccomendation we were given. there was a 90 day warranty, and we had a leaking gasket replaced during the warranty period. doesn't help me much here, although I plan on getting documentation about the axle problem, on the off chance they'll feel bad.
    * I didn't see wear on the inside, though I admit I didn't look. My husband only mentioned the outer wear.
    *sadly, I didn't ask which bearing - I should have, but the recent wheel problems (which they didn't know about, by the way) and her statement that she didn't really think it was safe to leave it like that was enough for me. I figured $550 (her estimate of about what everything would total out to) to tide me over till an acceptable Prius is found is better than renting (though I must confess I'm LOVING renting a Prius =P)
    *4 cylinder transmission
    *automatic (I'm bad for a manual car - I can drive it, but it doesn't sound good)
    *no lights whatsoever - I've actually only had the check engine light come on once, and that was when I found myself stranded with a broken transmission last time.

    The Alignment was a four wheel alignment and I'm only guessing at $100 because she had told me the price for the brakes, and had told me she didn't think it'd be more than $220. She seemed appropriately apologetic when she called to say the wheel bearings needed replaced, and did say that if I didn't want the alignment, that wasn't neccesary to keep driving the car till the transmission died. My husband (fearing a long wait for a prius and not wanting to deal with more tire problems till then) told me to go ahead and get it done,and not to feel bad. I did/am.



    You have no idea how grateful I am for your (and your husbands) help - that goes for all of you. I don't know when I'm being taken advantage of, and I have extremely bad luck. Having you guys in my corner helps even the score.


    EDIT: apologies for this being so darned long. I actually tell the first part pretty funny like in real life, but it's awfully boring online
     
  11. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    9,810
    465
    0
    Location:
    MD
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    the wheel bearing.
    outside edge wear on one tire or all of them?

    bad wheel bearings will cause wear on the inside of the tire. it will cause a growling, rumbling noise at lower speeds and some vibration in the vehicle toward the corner of the bad wheel bearing. this is a very slight vibration, you might be able to feel it in the floorboards. if it's really bad it can cause a light harmonic noise, but a pretty serious harmonic noise is generally a tire issue. a way to check this is simply to rotate the tires and drive the car again. if the noise is from the tire, it probably won't go away but it will change. if it's the wheel bearing it'll stay the same.

    have the tech show you exactly what is loose in the wheel bearing. a wheel bearing that is just noisy will have no play when you pull the tire in and out from top to bottom. this is hard to produce an image of verbally. so. if you put the car in the air and you put one hand on top of the tire and the other on the bottom of the tire, and push and pull wit h both hands, the tire will not move in and out at all if the bearing is good. if it's bad, the tire will move back and forth as the tech pushes on it. if you do it yourself, there will be a tactile click-click as you shift it.

    the transmission

    first. he's all about the auto trans lately as he just spent months studying for that damned auto trans ase test. :)

    the first transmission sounds like it could have died from a major fluid leak and running dry. typically you don't have internal failures that occur that rapidly. if the car ever sounds funny again, please pull over somewhere safe and turn the car off. it may save you some trouble and money, and it's just plain safer to do so. it's worth risking wasting some time for a few hundred bucks and possibly even your health!

    now on to this replacement transmission.

    has any service been done on the transmission since you got the replacement? fluid flushes, anything? any obvious leaks or anything leaving spots under the car? what's the current level and condition of the fluid? (red or brown? and the fluid level has to be checked in park with the engine running and the car has to be warmed up)

    noticed any shifting troubles? for example, if you're cruising along at 50mph, and you stomp on the gas pedal, it should drop 2 gears to be in a passing gear. you should hear the engine rpm go way up and you'll start really going fast. in this situation, is the gear change smooth and rapid? and in regular driving, is shifting smooth, does the car jerk, feel like something's slipping, or have any shudders?

    there is A way that an axle in a 4-cyl can have been left loose. as in, only one way it could have happened. the only axle that could have been left loose is on the driver's side. it shouldn't have caused any damage to the transmission- you would have been more likely to have snapped the retaining studs that hold the axle in place. if that axle had been left loose on the transmission side, it would have caused a very loud knocking noise that you would have noticed right away.

    overall, these are reliable cars. the 4-cyl engines and automatic transmissions rarely have this much trouble. he'd recommend a second opinion on that tranny from another toyota dealer. don't mention that you were told this one is going to fail, just ask for a check over and an evaluation of the transmission. they should do this for you for free. if it costs you anything, it will be 40-50 dollars. much more and you're being ripped off. DH's shop does it for free.

    the replacement engine.

    unrelated to the transmission problem, does the engine sound like it's running smoothly when it's idling? any knocks or ticks? during heavy acceleration or deceleration, any knocks or ticks?

    the only thing he can come up with for the new (used) engine is either a major oil loss (punctured oilpan or severe leak) or a sludging issue. those year camrys did have some sludging. not a lot, but some.

    other thoughts

    he is assuming that the motor mounts (2) that you were told about are the passenger side upper and the front motor mount. they're always replaced in pairs. if one goes, the other gets destroyed so you have to do both.

    the only other maintenance issue that these cars have is a loud creak or groan from the suspension when you hit a bump. this is caused by deteriorated rubber in the strut tops. other than that and a minor electrical issue, these cars generally do not have these kinds of problems.

    side note recommendation: don't change brake pads anywhere but the dealer. if you do, request factory pads. toyota has this brake-noise reducing system thing. for future reference.

    and lots of things affect gas mileage. he just replaced his 87 camry's crankshaft pulley because it was messed up and taking a chunk out of his mpg's. just to let you know there are a million factors there. checked your air filter lately?

    he does not feel good about the transmission thing, (2 transmissions in 135k miles in a camry is unheard of) and strongly suggests that you get a second opinion on that before spending that kind of money. and if you feel like making a big drive, he's going to be in jax for some toyota training in a few weeks, he'd be willing to check it over personally for you. course, that is a long drive and all so he understands if it's too much to drive that far and meet some stranger from priuschat to have him check out your car :lol:

    that's all we have for the moment. we'll wait to hear what you have to say on a few of the things he asked above.

    sorry you're stuck in this crappy situation :(