I have betrayed you all...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by DocVijay, Nov 15, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Hmm. I live in Texas, so yeah, we have hot summers, but my house has solar panels which powers the A/C...and let's see. I don't have health insurance, and yeah, I got a six figure medical bill, but I did not dump it on the public to pay; I am paying it myself.

    So let's see. Your point?

    Oh, and one other thing. I am not saying I am perfect, or drive the perfect solution with Hybrids. BUT, I am also not trying to justify a huge gas hog, that pollutes much more then a Prius, on a Prius site, am I?

    Thanks for your time! Have a great day. :typing:
     
  2. DocVijay

    DocVijay Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    1,455
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    But if you use that logic, then a plug in hybrid or a pure electric vehicle is no better than a gas burner. All they do is shift the pollution form the exhaust pipe to the plant where the power is produced. And seeing how the vast majority of power produced in this country is still the very dirty type...

    Last time I counted, there was only one person on PC that powered their electric vehicle purely on renewable sources. He gets my full respect. Only he can claim to be helping the planet.

    Here's what it all comes down to: by driving a Prius (or any other clean car) you are not really saving the planet, you are only killing it slower. Yes, the Prius shuts down at red lights, but it still uses gas.

    Any car that uses gasoline is NOT environmentally friendly. It's that simple. Some may be more friendly than others, but they still pollute. They still emit greenhouse gases. They still use gasoline. Period. No getting around that.

    Of course, people and animals all produce greenhouse gases too. The only thing environmentally friendly it seems are the plants themselves.

    FL_Prius_Driver: My gas bills have not gone up at all, in fact they are lower. I'm driving much less now. I used to commute almost 120 miles a day 5 days a week. Now it's two days at most. The other days the miles I drive is minimal. Even in a Prius, 30k miles a year adds up quick in gas bills (660 gallons/year). 8k miles a year (my estimate) in a Navigator isn't too bad at all (470 gallons).

    And finally, TJ, I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm not trying to justify my purchase. Why do I need to? When I initially posted, it was because people had asked me what I was buying. I never had any intentions of trying to win anyone over. Do I gain something by having your approval? No, I don't, so why would I need or want it anyway?
     
  3. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    No sheet, Sherlock. But when a TOYOTA HYBRID shuts down, it does not use gas. If you add 1+1, it will equal 2 every time, all the time. So, even though it's small, 1 + 1 =2, and then you add another 1 to that, it equals 3, and so on. Even though it's a small number, you keep adding it up, it will make a much larger number. So that small amount of gas you save in a Toyota Hybrid, every time you don't use the gas motor, weather at a light, or when you are on the electric only, adds up. But, here is where, again, you don't get it: When your death machine is still idling away at lights, you are wasting gas, and polluting the planet, and that, that also adds up. To a waste total that far out weighs any TOYOTA HYBRID. You can't, and will never, be able to argue that point away, and that is where I get mad at you.

    Or I should say, your twisted thinking. My gawd, man, you drove a PRIUS! You were part of the solution, not part of the problem! How can you go backwards? How can you go from saving the planet for your kids, to killing it for them, and a faster then average rate? Are you that greedy? You must be, to even begin to think you can justify this monstrosity.

    Nope, but you know what? Every little bit helps. This is not a problem that will go away entirely overnight. It will take years, decades, to fix, if it can ever be 100% fixed.
    And I know people need to get around. But just like if you use recycled plastic, the process may produce pollution, but in the end, the total amount of pollution is less. Some manufacturing plants, are going zero waste, so that helps as well. The day will come when we have better solutions for pollution, but for now, you work with what you got. Your bastard monster truck just spits in the the face of the environment. Your tireless defense of it indicates you need to feel justified for your heartless decision.

    You are trying to justify it. The internet is filled with people trying to justify this or that. It's why you post in the first place; to try to justify your choice, your feelings, your view... We all do it. I do. But you are trying to deny it, and that is just amusing to me.

    That is why PM's are there; so as to keep things PRIVATE. If you really did not want to justify anything, you could have kept it private. That simple. So only those who wanted to know, would know, and you could keep your choice private, and not, by starting a thread with the title, 'I have betrayed you all...' which in a Eco friendly forum like this, just invites critics, harsh ones at that, and justifiably so. I said it earlier: It's like going into a anti abortion site with a pro choice view. You should expect to be ridiculed, and mocked, and have your views spit on.
    Fact is, since you had been here with a Prius, and put all kinds of mods on it, you should have known your crowd. I am tolerate of a lot of things, but I just can't get behind furthering the demise of this planet. I don't have kids. I am doing this, driving Hybrids, because it's morally wrong what is being done to this planet. I recycle, I use solar panels, I do every possible thing I can to help this planet. One of those things is even not having kids and furthering the strain on this planet.

    You should have known better, but you showed you did not. You got one of the worse offenders, and that is simply put, arrogant.

    Your life may be filled with wonderful things, you may give of your time to local charities, you may recycle, I don't know. But your buying that monster gas consuming bad for the air polluting piece of American Gluttony, says volumes about your real environmental concerns.

    :noidea: I don't know; so why continue to post here and try to convince others that your vehicle is so low on emissions, or that you don't drive it far, or things of that nature? Sounds like someone who is trying to garner approval on something that they know, deep down, was a horrible mistake.

    I rarely get this uptight, but it's as if to me, that you are hurting your children, and I can't just sit idly by while you do that.

    I am upset at myself for losing my cool, but screwing around with the planet like you are doing, harming your kids, harming others with your careless choice, well, to me, that is despicible.

    You are of course, free to be angry at me for my harsh words, and I accept that. And of course, this is a semi-free country still, and you are free to choose what you want.

    But on a forum such as this, you can (or should) expect a harsh reaction.

    Sorry.

    Have a nice day.
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,231
    1,561
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    TJ, I'm usually pretty tolerant, too, but your continued persecution of DocVijay is getting to me. Maybe you may feel like you're preaching, but it's sounding sanctimonious to me. This isn't PiousChat.
     
  5. SSimon

    SSimon Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    1,418
    20
    0
    Location:
    N/W of Chicago
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    All life choices directly affect the environment. You cannot quantify the extent to which someone may be affecting/benefiting/harming the environment based solely on the car that one drives, which is why I cut you a lot of slack in the early stages of this thread. However, the more you post, the more I see that you truly lack comprehension of the overall extent to which your (our) choices affect the environment. Instead you seem to quantify the affects of your choices at point of use. The consequences to our environment cannot be quantified in this way.
     
  6. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,508
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    But the CO2 from a coal-powered plant to power EVs is still less than if those EVs were conventional ICE cars.

    This and the following quotes are the same absurity - if you are not perfect - don't even bother trying. Example: My diet and workout does not get me on GQ or some other zine so I completely let my self go and look like a suma wrestler.

    So should we make an effort at anything? You're answer seems to be no since we are imperfect at virtually everything.

    Doubt this would be material for The Pursuit of Excellence

    So are you suggesting the only way to be carbon neutral/friendly is to commit sucide? Please!
     
  7. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    564
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You right Doc, neither car is environmentally friendly.

    While the Prius tells the environment to f*** off the Navigator blows its brains out with a hand gun, neither is friendly but one does more harm and shows a total lack of concern.
    That's fashion for ya.
     
  8. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    You may have a point. It's just this particular thing gets to me. Maybe it's my button.
     
  9. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    4,319
    1,526
    0
    Location:
    Tampa Bay
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Thanks for the response. A good example why not being judgemental is always a good idea.

    When it comes to being "greener" than someone else, it eventually works out that only one person on the planet is "greenest" of all.... and only that person can criticize everyone else.

    Keep taking the steps you are taking.
     
  10. barbaram

    barbaram Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    911
    66
    9
    Location:
    Trenton, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    ban him now!!!!!
    lotus next???? good for you that you have that much money to burn! I'd be very happy to send you my address to send me a check!
    so much for any thought of conserving anything!
     
  11. PoulStaugaard

    PoulStaugaard Now a PriusOwner

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    95
    1
    0
    Location:
    Copenhagen, Denmark
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Anyone who justifies a large gas-guzzling vehicle by saying he needs it to carry his children, should really start by asking himself what his children shall use to carry their children. Not to mention what his grandchildren shall use to carry their children. I have no doubt, it will be something smaller.
     
  12. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,231
    1,561
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry I felt the need to interject, TJ, and thanks for being patient with me. Jumping in to someone else's fight like that, I'm liable to hear it from both sides.

    Sadly, we all seem to damage our environments no matter what we do. In a way, it seems similar to the Christian concept of Original Sin, which I'm sure you're familiar with. Stewardship seems to fit in there nicely, too, even if it is arrogant to assume dominion over all life. While we're on the subject, how do you feel about "hate the sinner but not the sin?" Keep up the preaching, just don't get too comfortable in that pulpit. :fencing:
     
  13. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    :nono: No, it's hate the sin, love the sinner.

    And I do believe that we should take care of the planet that we given. I also know, that we all damage it, no matter what. But we should lesson that by doing what we can, to save the planet. Even if it's small bits here and there; it all adds up.
     
  14. DocVijay

    DocVijay Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    1,455
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    You give yourself too much credit. I am not angry at you, I have no reason to be. You are allowed your opinion just as much as everyone else. The only person I got mad at in this thread was not over his opinion, but over his inappropriate comments. People should not get angry because another's opinion differs from their own.


    Oops. My bad.


    Yes, I'm very lucky. We're by no means rich, not by any definition, but we live comfortably.


    Yes, there are plenty of people on the internet that are seeking approval for any number of things. I'm not one of them. It's from the answer above. My life is filled with wonderful things: my wife, my kids, my friends, my family, even material possessions. It's all there. It's the primary reason I was able to achieve some level of normalcy in my life just a few months after the accident.

    Yes, there is a level of psychological well being to have the approval of all those around you, but that is an unreasonable expectation to have. You can never please everyone. And when it comes down to it, (and I don't mean this in any disrespectful way), what you think really doesn't matter. I would be worried if a person lives their life based on what a poster on an internet forum thought.

    It's all relative. I'm certain that out there somewhere there is someone who may be thinking the same about you that you think of me because you got a gas burning Prius and not a full electric charged by solar. Where does it stop? There is another guy who rides a bike to and from work that hates the guy who drives an EV, because so much went into manufacturing it compared to a bike. Then there is the guy who walks...

    Where does the seeking of approval stop (or start)? When I posted my write-up threads on all the mods I did was I seeking approval? When a thread about dogs is started and someone posts about their dog, are they seeking approval for their choice in breed. Or by telling how much they love their dog ar they justifying buying a dog at all? Where does it stop...?

    I mean, if that is the case, then anyone who has ever posted on PC was just seeking to justify their purchase of a hybrid, seeking approval, telling us all they belong in the Clan of the Prius Drivers.


    Well, every time you post I need to reply don't I? That's the same reason you reply. Horrible mistake? Sorry, but I really don't feel that way. I'm sorry to disappoint you. And as far as not driving it as far? Well, someone asked, so I answered. How much have my gas bills gone up? They haven't. If that was all I posted, it wouldn't make sense. How can I drive a car that gets 1/3 the mileage yet spend less in gas. Well, I drive less now. Now the answer makes sense. Seeking approval? No, just being courteous to another poster.

    Besides, we're at 214 posts so far. Can't stop now!


    Yes, among other things...


    I knew what I was getting into.


    Well, you really don't need to apologize for anything, but I accept anyway.


    I try to every day. Hope you do too. :D


    Take care.
     
  15. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    You are disappointing me. And others.

    Seeking approval? You are.

    You are still not getting that it does not matter if you drive one mile or a million in a year; that all the time you drive that smog producing hellacious horrible eye sore grotesque disgusting planet killing machine,(;)), you are polluting much more then a hybrid would!

    Those who drive HYBRIDS are not polluting all the time. Those who drive EV's, less
    polluting. Those who ride bike, less polluting. Those who walk, even less polluting. Those who sit at home doing nothing, are doing the most at not polluting.

    But you are amongst the top polluters with your choice of vehicle. You are taking away every time you fire up that beast, from those who are trying to do the right thing.

    You can not, in any way, shape, or form, convince me that you don't know that. And how can you even begin to justify your greedy choice, when you have kids?? You are killing the planet. I am too. But I don't have kids, and I am doing less harm then you. My two hybrids will produce less pollution then the average single car this year.

    I am being pro active in my pursuit of a cleaner planet. I suspect, that even if you lived in the forest, and did not have any artificial structure around you, you would still leave pollution. It's a fact of life here on planet Earth.

    But I still believe that the less you pollute, the more it adds up to a overall healthier planet.

    Now, you can ignore this, laugh at this, scoff at this, reply to this. Your choice. But please, do not try to convince me that your Lincoln is some sort of environmentally friendly vehicle, when clearly, it is not.

     
  16. miltonprius

    miltonprius New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2007
    5
    0
    0
    Location:
    Milton, Ma
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    congradulations on having more space and feeling more safe... besided my oppourtunity to bash about the emissions, i really do think the lincoln is a bit tacky looking.. especially in.. eggplant:eek:

    have fun trying to sell it... ford products are known to have resale value equivalent to day old fish as it is...
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,508
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Anyone know when this thread crossed the line from reasoning to emoting? Might have been a couple hundred posts ago.
     
  18. DocVijay

    DocVijay Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2005
    1,455
    2
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    You got me. You really did. Without your approval I am nothing. I am sorry I disappoint you so. I shall go and sit in a corner and cry, hoping that one day you can find it in your heart to approve of my actions. Until then my life is empty...

    You still haven't explained why I would need your approval though. Or why I need to justify it to you. How would my life be different if you suddenly said you like the Lincoln? If you were my dad, my brother, or my son then yes, it might mean something. I am still at a loss though as to what impact your (or anyone else on PC) approval would have on me. The simple fact is that it wouldn't


    Well, yes.



    Another astute observation


    I never tried to convince you or anyone else that it was. Go back and read what I wrote in post #184. Never mind, I'll copy it here for you:

    "Now I am by no means claiming that the Navigator is an environmentally friendly car..."

    What I DID say was that it is much more friendly than you think it is. I stated that for a vehicle of it's size and capabilities it is VERY clean. You see, I qualified my statements with that bold part.

    It's pretty darn impressive when a vehicle with a GVWR of 7700 and a towing capacity of 9000 pounds is classified as a ULEV II vehicle. There are not many other vehicles in this class that can claim that (actually only the extended Expedition). Certainly not the H2. That was my point.

    You have repeated over and over that a hybrid pollutes less. Well of course they do. But there was no hybrid available in this size. The Yukon Hybrid was supposed to be out, but it wasn't. I still haven't seen them for sale. If it had been out, I'd be driving that.

    I wanted a vehicle of this size and capability, and as it turns out, I bought the cleanest one available. They announced recently that there will be a clean diesel version in 2010, but I obviously couldn't wait that long.

    Sure the Navigator pollutes more than a Prius, that's obvious. But compared to all other vehicles of the same size it's very clean.

    I imagine in 4-5 years there will be many more options for clean vehicles of this size. At that time I'll buy one of those.

    In the meantime I'm satisfied with the fact that I'm doing the least amount of damage currently possible for this type of vehicle.

    Good night and sleep well. I will.



    miltonprius: Purple was not my first choice (or my second or third...). It's my wife's favorite color...



    Oh, and here are some emoticons for Delta Flyer

    :p ;) :confused: :cool: :second::sick::laser::wave:

    (wow! I didn't know there were so many! :D )
     
  19. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    6
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
  20. TJandGENESIS

    TJandGENESIS Are We Having Fun Yet?

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    5,299
    46
    0
    Location:
    ★Lewisville, part of the Metroplex, Dallas, in the
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Hey, you are the one with the issue that is clear; you seek approval, and you seek it amongst your former peers, so you posted a thread about your horrible choice of a monster truck. If you did not need approval, you would not have posted. Be it a small amount or a large amount, approval is what most humans seek. It's part of our nature.

    As in any argument started, you would feel vindicated. You would feel as if you persuaded a harsh critic that your choice of smog machine was a good one.

    If I was your dad, or brother, or your son, I would be disgusted with your greedy choice. I would be disgusted you put your selfish needs above the planet.

    IMO, you choose a horrible machine, when you could have sacrificed a small bit, and got a Highlander Hybrid. Or maybe the Tahoe Hybrid. Or even if you needed luxury, the Cadillac Escalade Hybrid. But you did not. You choose a Lincoln, that pollutes all the time.

    Bah. It still pollutes. Again, the Tahoe would do. But you needed the bling. It's clear from your post. And, again, with a slight sacrifice, a Highlander would have done very well.

    Maybe it's me. I sacrifice all the time, so I expect others to try and do the same. Like many others out there, I do things all the time for my fellow humans. However, it would be easy to be a selfish bastard, and not give a sheet for the planet at all. It would be simple to do.

    But, like many others have done for so long, I see the need for change, and the fact that change will require a sacrifice from all of us.

    Funny. I have seen all the Hybrids listed in this post on the roads, and that is here in Oil Rich Texas. Surely in Status Symbol Florida, there is one or two. In fact, when I lived in SOUTH FLORIDA, I know I saw a few.

    Please. It still pollutes, it still has horrible mileage compared to my Highlander Hybrid. You went backwards, not forwards.

    Meanwhile, for four or five years, you help kill the planet some more. Yeah you!

    Again, no. You could have done far less damage, with the proper choice of Hybrid, if you had sacrificed a just a little, but you did not.
    If you are satisfied, then good for you.
    As John Lennon once wrote, 'How do you sleep at night?'.
    Oh, that's right. When one does not seemingly have a care for the planet, one can sleep very well.
    See, to me, and many others, you don't care about the planet, not one bit more then any other Lincoln Navigator driver out there.

    You owned a Hybrid. You knew what you were doing. You were, every day you drove that Hybrid, saving the planet just a little at a time.

    How you can just ignore all of that, and retreat, is beyond my logical way of thinking. I for one, will always from this point on, try to drive a vehicle that saves the planet. Even a bit at a time.

    I know that my conscious is clear on this issue.:yo:
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.