I just bought a CPO Prius V. Lots of issues.

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by gromittoo, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    OK, I was looking for a 2017 Prius V in a hot seller's market (as the Pandemic is ending in June 2021). I love my 2013 Prius V, so I knew what I wanted.

    To find a 2017 Prius V, I had to go to a dealer three hours away. It is a trim level 4, and has 40,200 miles on it. It is a tough market to buy a used car. I bought it sight unseen, and I put down a $1000 non-refundable deposit. But hey, it is Certified Pre-Owned, right? I was promised a full tank of gas, two keys, and owner's manuals.

    OK, I get there, and I park next to the car I am purchasing. I look it over, and I notice NO FLOOR MATS. The car was originally sold with an upgraded floor mat package.

    I brought this up with my sales person, and she told me that it was traded in that way. I did find out that they put 4 new tires on it, because they charged me a $10 tire disposal fee. I was expecting to replace the tires in 10k miles, so figured I would let the floor mats slide.

    Before I drove away, I looked in the glovebox, and it appeared that there might be Owners Manuals. I pulled out of the lot, and the left blinker was blinking real fast. I figured a bulb had burned out. Also, I noticed that the gas gauge only shows two bars. I went to a gas station and filled up, then found that the left rear turn signal bulb was missing. I ALSO GOT HIT IN THE HEAD BY THE LIFTGATE, BECAUSE THE LIFTER STRUTS ARE SHOT. The liftgate shows evidence of rust and looks 10 years old. The liftgate on my 8 year old 2013 still works fine. Did someone swap the parts to fix another car?

    I drove back to the dealer, and asked to speak to a sales manager. I explained the missing bulb, the tailgete problem, and handed then the receipt for the gas I had just bought. They told me to to pull into the service bay, and in the time it took to fix the bulb, they handed me cash for the gasoline. Nothing was done about the liftgate.

    So this morning, I am wondering what to do. Here is the list of problems with this CPO Prius so far:
    1) No Floor mats, in spite of the price analysis of the car on Edmonds.com indicated $920 of excessories including upgraded floor mats.
    2) Missing turn signal bulb which they remedied. Apparently it was "borrowed" from this car to fix another car on the lot.
    3) the tank was not even close to full. However, they nicely handed me cash for my filling it.
    4) The Liftgate is unusable. I would have expected this would be covered by the CPO. inspection.​

    I should have asked to return my money for the car then and there, before leaving. I was worn out, and it was going to take hours. I needed to get home.

    What else is wrong with the car? Can someone point me to a list of what the CPO inspection covers? Who can I call at Toyota to complain? Should I get a trusted dealer near me to do a CPO inspection? What are my rights under the CPO program?
     
  2. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Toyota is unlikely to care. Their dealers are independent companies that pay to use the Toyota name, nothing more. I have first-hand experience with Toyota's apathy in this regard.

    Either way, the items you listed are excluded by Toyota's CPO warranty.

    This is why it's important to carefully inspect a vehicle before purchase. Once you buy it, it's yours.
     
  3. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    NOT all CPOs are the same....TRUST ME! :D
    (inside joke!)

    There's 100 different variations but generally speaking there is an OEM (factory) CERTIFIED PRE OWNED program, and then there are other certified pre-owned programs that really do little more than certify that your car has been previously owned.

    You need to read through all of the paperwork that you signed and see what your back-out options are - immediately.
    Then?
    You need to see what the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania has to say about your rights to back out of a deal that you put ink to.
    You MAY (almost certainly DO!) have rights beyond what the dealer will tell you about, but in most cases not very many.
    This "may be" because you probably do not make as many political donations as car sellers do.

    HOWEVER (comma!)
    My finely honed Spidey senses are telling me that this car didn't meet the requirements for a factory CPO program, and the seller soft-soaped you on the sale.
    You probably signed some papers that legally wed you to the car because most dealers know enough about the law to avoid coloring too far outside the lines.

    So...
    You now need to do some investigative work about YOUR new-to-you car.
    Get the dealer records using your VIN and the Toyota web site.
    Pay for a car fax report. The dealer did! (Actually they have a subscription)
    You may also want to consider getting the car inspected by a mechanic that works for THEMSELVES and not a crooked dealership.
    A bad light on a 2017 might be a bad light bulb...or mouse-chewed wires....or a previously flooded car.

    Your car has at least one safety related problem that they let you drive off the lot with.
    It's not a major one to be sure, BUT If you bought it from a for-real Toyota dealership you may be able to raise an eyebrow or two by pointing it out.

    You have some work to do.
    Good Luck!
     
    #3 ETC(SS), Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  4. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    Take the car to an independent mechanic along with the 'CPO' item list and have the independent mechanic conduct a post-purchase inspection. Call the dealer, then take the results of any open items to the dealer for remediation, or walk away from the deal on whatever 3-day or other option you have available.
     
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  5. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^ .....even if it costs you some money you might be better off.

    I smell unrefrigerated fish!!
     
  6. MrRJP

    MrRJP Junior Member

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    TCUVs can be exchanged within 7 days if you're not happy.

    Also I would ask for a copy of the TCUV inspection report and then go through it to see if they missed anything or anything was incorrect on the inspection report.

    Pixel 4 ?
     
  7. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I'd still not buy any car sight unseen.

    Just another reason to buy NEW!
     
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  8. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    1) The car on all the usual internet sites show the car with the "Toyota CPO" logo on it. I specifically asked the Saleswoman on the phone if this car was Certified Pre-Owned. I have printed out a copy of their ad from Edmonds.com (attached as pdf)

    2) Two of problems were resolved. They Paid me for the gas. Also, I doubt Flood or Mice. I showed the service manager that the left rear turn signal bulb was not present in the car. He suggested that maybe someone needed a bulb, for another car, and "Borrowed" it. He was apologetic. Not great, but anyone who used the left turn signal would have to notice. I didn't even test drive it.

    3) I had forgotten about the Carfax report is included. That should have been a red flag.

    4) From researching a different car, I know that at least one dealership would charge $136 to perform the CPO inspection for me. None of the dealerships here in Philadelphia are associated with the place in Binghamton, NY.

    5) How do I "Get the dealer records using your VIN and the Toyota web site.". I did the Vehicle Specification site: Vehicle Specification | Toyota Owners
    And discovered that the car is in fact a trim level 4 in Blizzard White, and was originally sold by the Jack Sherman dealer.ship. A sleazy dealer near me was trying to pass off a "trim level 2 "as a "trim level 5". I accidentally hit the "Navigate To Home" button in the GPS, and I know the previous owner lived in Kirkwood, PA (about 15 miles from Binghamton.).
     

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  9. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Honestly if the car is mechanically, electrically, hydraulically and generally cosmetically good while being the color and trim you want, then I would call it good. Hatch struts are easy. I might have been slightly bent if they put on some crummy tires instead of my preferred 100k mile Michelins.

    I think buyers remorse is common with any high dollar purchase but you would have paid a premium for a new hybrid Venza, which is somewhat comparable. Keep the oil changes frequent and clean the egr at 75k intervals and drive it another 200k.
     
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  10. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    1) They stopped making Prius V's after 2017
    2) The rational was that RAV 4 hybrids were a suitable replacement. IMHO (they the RAV4 is a lousy car to use for UBER, too small a back seat.
    3) My Budget was for $22,000. even a used 2017 RAV4 would cost more than that. A new RAV4 just ain't goint to happen.
     
  11. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Clearly your advice is just inflammatory after the fact and adds little value. New vehicle shortages are driving the used car market. The Prius v is an amazing taxi service vehicle because of its amazing rear seat room and oversized ac and cooling system. In Europe they are the preferred taxi over BMWs and Mercedes that are usually belching diesel and have no ac. Odds are the op could hold the car for two months and recover his costs and taxes, an almost unprecedented situation. Sometimes discretion is the better part of Priuschat valor.
     
    #11 rjparker, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
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  12. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    GOOD NEWS:
    1) I called the dealership, and the service department tech did notice the hatch seemed kind of heavy when replacing the missing bulb yesterday. They are going to order the struts, and ship them to me at their cost, and I will install. I consider this an decent solution.

    2) I mentioned to the same service guy, that I purchased this particular car Specifically because it was CPO. There was a Silver Prius V three in Virginia that was with 12k fewer miles for 2K less money, but not a Toyota Dealer (and not CPO). I chose this White car specifically because of CPO. The service guy told me that their computer definitely shows it as a CPO. I told him that I had no paperwork for CPO. He told me that was a mistake, he would talk to the appropriate people sales / finance, and get that resolved.
    As for the Buyer's remorse, I think RJP nailed it. I put the deposit down a week ago, but I couldn't get a second driver for the pick up until yesterday (Monday). I was really stressing out about this purchase for 6 days. I kept wanting to back out, and buy a cheaper car. I still have my 2013, and I can still use it for Uber / Lyft for another 56k miles (about 2.5 years). Assuming I get whatever paperwork for the CPO, I am happy:)

    As for my 2013, RJP has been telling me on other threads about how important it is to clean the EGR and Cooler. With 94k on it, my 2013 is due. I bought somebody's spare EGR cooler on eBay last week for $100, already cleaned. Since I am having eye surgery on one eye tomorrow, I won't be driving for a week or two. Time to clean the EGR + cooler, replace the plugs + coolant.

    Looking at the Venza: The pictures show nice wide back doors. That is why I love the Prius V for doing Uber / Lyft. By pushing the adjustable back seat all the way back, passengers have lots of legroom and headroom, and can get in and out easily. This is the main selling point for me of the Prius V over the RAV4 hybrid. My question is does the Venza have a back seat that adjusts?
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Yeah make sure you get the CPO in writing. It’s an expensive service and it quite obviously did not get a CPO inspection.

    Buy the dealer oil filter and change the engine oil ASAP with some good oil.
    Try to find a shop that will let you look under the car when it’s on the lift
    And check it out under there and take pictures of the suspension.
    I tip the guy and they let me under there for quite a while. I lubricate the hell out of the suspension.
     
  14. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    1) no you didn't
    2) dang
    3) LoL what ? why ? this was not thought through !
    4) holy crap ! noooooo
    5) promises promises
    6) adding insult to...
    7) why ? you paid $**,**** for a cpo and are letting things slide ??
    8) some lights burn bright, some do not
    9) INJURY, finally the rest of #6 is complete !
    10) probably, yes
    11) basically never do what your did in 1-10
    12) definitely, before someone sold you a condo
    13) I think we'll find out in a little while
    14) I would Google it
    15) ditto
    16) why ? you already bought it
    17) ditto 15

    I really don't understand this thought process.... paying money for a car BEFORE inspecting, test driving, pulling codes, checking service history, checking recalls, and then folding your money and print it back in your pocket to think on it.... I just do not understand this.

    you could have very easily driven 3 hours to the seller (private or stealer) seen the condition, and driven 3 hours home without buying a mistake.

    hope do you ask a dealer to accept your current car... trade it in on another car ?
     
  15. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Not inflammatory. Just a good advice to avoid the very disappointment that the OP is experiencing. If you look at my profile, you would likely see that I own a Prius v. Your opinion is insulting and is ignored.

    Maybe not helpful for the OP, but to many future purchasers.

    Expect issues when you buy used. Good financial planning means you can buy new.

    The golden rule is that the one who has the gold makes the rules.

    No deal is so good that you can't walk away from.
     
    #15 Georgina Rudkus, Jun 15, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  16. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I echo what RJParker said: Your advice is just inflammatory. You haven't been looking for a good used car in the current extremely crazy market for cars (demand is very high, and supply is very low). In my case, I have very specific requirements that only a 2016 or 2017 Prius V could fill. That meant I was going to have to make some tough and risky choices that I would not even consider in a normal market.

    At the point is that I needed to leave the dealership, I thought I had a CPO, and I would get it resolved at a different dealer back home. I have bought plenty of used cars in the past, mostly from private individuals. I have encountered problems, and I have been able to resolve them (eventually). At this point, I have resolved everything with this car except the status of the CPO. Next time read before you go on a rant.

    as for the comment that RUDKUS made:

    Good financial planning means you can buy new.

    I find that statement insulting to me, and wholly inappropriate. Consider that not everyone has resources like you do. You are implying that I am an irresponsible cry baby, and it is hard not to take personally.

    Additionally the comment:
    No deal is so good that you can't walk away from.

    I could not afford to lose the $1000 non-refundable deposit. If I had not put down the $1000 last Tuesday, the car could easily have been sold. As it was, it took six days for me to arrange for a drive buddy for the trip back to Philly on Monday. I had no realistic option to walk away. That was a calculated decision on my part, that has no shame. I already knew I would love a newer Prius V, and I was relying on the CPO to prevent problems.
     
    #16 gromittoo, Jun 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  17. rosethornil

    rosethornil Member

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    I heartily disagree. I have adequate financial means and I buy late-model cars with under 20,000 miles.

    In 2016, I bought a Prius C with 22,000 miles. I paid $12,400. According to KBB, its value today (with 83,000 miles) is about $1,500 less than I paid.

    I’m a big fan of buying cars that are ALMOST new.
     
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  18. Tim Jones

    Tim Jones Senior Member

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    Where are the suspension lubrication points?
     
  19. Air_Boss

    Air_Boss Senior Member

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    It obviously depends on the car, mileage, and one's ability to do due diligence on maintenance history and condition, but avoiding the initial year or two 30% (or greater) loss in market value can have significant total cost of ownership benefits.
     
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  20. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    The OP bought a USED car from a USED CAR DEALER. The reputation of used car dealers has been widely known, since there has been USED CAR DEALERS.

    This particular dealer obviously uses a CPO as no more than a marketing tool to hook in a unsuspecting "fish" to purchase a car sight unseen.

    To keep the OP hooked, the dealer crafted a "non-refundable" $1,000 deposit scheme. The dealer also knew that the OP was desperate to purchase the particular car, no longer made new and felt out his desire to own it.

    Having made the same mistake on past purchases, I can see how the OP was played.

    For many many years, I drove beaters and junkers, knowing exactly what they were and they were as expected. Nearly all my peers and co-workers drove better and lived in more prestigious residences.

    Instead of "indenturing" my future earnings to financial slavery, I saved whatever I can and bought less than I can afford. After 30 years or more, I can afford to buy new cars in cash. But, it's a great feeling that I neither want or will do that.

    I drove a beater for 10 years and saved my money so that I could buy my 2012 Prius v with cash. At the very same time, I started to save for my new car, which I can now buy in cash, if I needed to.

    So, it all comes down to life skills. The OP expected a nearly new car on that basis of a USED CAR DEALER's promises. Unfortunately, for him, he was taken. Sad, but true.

    Take it as inflammatory or insulting if you like, but that is the TRUTH. Often, the truth hurts.

    What's more insulting and inflammatory is what the dealer did to the OP.
     
    #20 Georgina Rudkus, Jun 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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