I put Nitrogen in my tires.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 03:51 AM) [snapback]347741[/snapback]</div>

How do they know it's nitrogen? Can they see it, or smell it, or have they tried putting a match to any small leaks?

 

"Nitrogen in tires is becoming a popular replacement for standard air. Nitrogen is all around us... the air we breathe is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and the rest is small amounts of other gasses."

I'm using a 78% nitrogen mix in my tires. Pretty cost-effective, too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 06:33 AM) [snapback]347756[/snapback]</div>

Oh, well if they had a video it must be true.... :huh:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bgdrewsif @ Nov 12 2006, 07:48 AM) [snapback]347767[/snapback]</div>

And it was on the internet, so it must be doubly true!

P.T. Barnum would be pleased.

 

You should have talked to me first. For only $20 I would have sent you an adapter that fits on your compressor and produces an unlimited amount of 78% Nitrogen.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 02:33 AM) [snapback]347756[/snapback]</div>

When you buy your tires at Costco, nitrogen is free. The same goes for tire pressure checks and adjustments for the life of the tire.

 

The link tells me that all the other gases seep through the sidewalls. Since I use a mixture of 78% nitrogen when I refill them my tires should have almost pure nitrogen in them by now anyway, and it was free.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 12:41 PM) [snapback]347879[/snapback]</div>

Pure nitrogen in the tires has little to no benefit, other than the pressure in the tires won't drop as quickly over time. If you get it for free, then fine, otherwise you're wasting your money because if you just check your tire pressure when you gas-up your car, you won't have any issues.

That's what you were wrong about.

 

Well, to put it bluntly; you've taken part--unwittingly--in a revenue enhancement campaign SEE THE LINK:

Nitrogen In Tires

Or perhaps not...

Nitrogen is supposed to migrate through the tire slower, so whatever pressure you put them at, it should stay there a little longer. I hope your tire guy didn't make you think that 40psi of nitrogen in a tire would save gas when compared to 40psi of air in that same tire. I have heard a local tire company's radio ad that claimed this... but it's not true.

I have a BIG, fully-charged nitrogen tank in my shop and I run air in my tires. Why? Yes, I check my tire pressure regularly, but there's more to it than that. How could I possibly "fill my tires" with nitrogen? When deflating them of air, there would be still be PLENTY of air left inside the tire to dilute my precious nitrogen when I began to fill it. If I went ahead and filled it with nitrogen I would STILL have to check my tire pressure for a pretty good while afterwards until all the nasty old air found its way through the sidewalls. And if I'm going to be checking my tire pressure regularly, I could just go ahead and use the cheap stuff: air.

Net fuel mileage gain: zero. Net good-for-environment gain: zero. There was a big gain here, but it wasn't yours.

Now mind you, with winter coming on, I'm thinking about going out to the shop and filling ONE of my Prius's tires with nitrogen, and then check them every week to see if there's any difference. There SHOULD be, but I don't think it'll be much.

Nitrogen would be a pretty cool tire-inflation substance if you could get it free (and I do), but if you know how to use a tire gauge (and you do), I don't see that there' anything to be gained. I wait to be shown different.

GeronimoPFudgemuffin

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]347879[/snapback]</div>

I guess I thought someone who is environmentally concious would study the idea with some skepticism before plunking down $40 for a scam like this.

From your link, the "who are we" page:

Special thanks to our sponsors:
• Branick Industries
• Champion
• Costco
• Myers Tire Supply
• Tire Retread Information Bureau

See any trends here? Three are makers and sellers of nitrogen tire filling equipment. One is a tire seller who uses nitrogen as a "differentiator" to sell more tires.

There is no magic here. All gasses follow the ideal gas law -- nitrogen isn't exempt. Race cars use N2 for their own reasons, many of which have nothing to do with tires! (N2 tanks are often used instead of compressors to drive air tools.)

Next time save the $40 and fill your tires with 78% N2 like everyone else. And check your tire pressure more often.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TJandGENESIS @ Nov 12 2006, 11:41 AM) [snapback]347879[/snapback]</div>

I can't tell if that is a typo or not.
If it is, it's pretty funny.
If it's not, it's pretty sad.
I'm so confused . . . what are man rims? :huh:

Not only is the Costco nitrogen free . . . most Costco Tire Centers leave a hose outside the furthest bay for patrons who wish to check their own pressures and fill with nitrogen.

It's been over three months now since I got two new tires at Costco – and nitrogen in all four tires. The tires still read within one PSI of their fill pressure. All the nitrogen naysayers can just STFU because they don't know what they are talking about.

 

That "Get Nitrogen Institute" webpage reminds me a lot of the Dihydrogen Monoxide Research Divison (check out their FAQ for more information).

The thing that people are reacting to, TJ, is the idea of spending a lot of money for something where the claims are, at best, highly suspicious. As many have stated, air is over three-quarters nitrogen, so spending a large amount of money (relative to what you're getting) for something that provides little, if any, benefit doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

And, while we're on the subject...

Air is composed of molecuels of different gasses -- primarily N2 and O2. Nitrogen is lower on the atomic chart than oxygen, meaning that it has fewer electrons. N2, therefore, is be a smaller molecule than O2, not larger. It would pass through porous barriers more easily than oxygen for this reason.

In any event, you would have to let your tires get dangerously low to acheive any significant fractional filtering of the gasses in your tires.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jbarnhart @ Nov 12 2006, 12:50 PM) [snapback]347897[/snapback]</div>

Actually that is completely false. Nitrogen is a larger atom. Yes, it has fewer electrons, and fewer protons, meaning there is less "force" pulling the electron cloud in toward the nucleus. e.g. larger atom.

Fluorine is a smaller atom than Oxygen. Oxygen is a smaller atom than Nitrogen. Them's the facts.

Sorry to be an nice person about it, but as a Chem Major, it's frustrating when people think they know an answer and then say something completely wrong based on "intuition".

read: http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/1...s-smaller.shtml

Marketing is often a bunch of BS, but there has to be SOME grounding in fact otherwise it wouldn't stand up to a lawsuit.

-Staze

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(staze @ Nov 12 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]347906[/snapback]</div>

Often it takes a long time before a lawsuit or other legal action occurs. Look how long it took the government to go after some of the supplement companies.

As for me, I'm going to fill my tires with UF6. It's a big molecule, plus I can pull enriched uranium from the inside of the wheel as I drive.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Nov 12 2006, 01:13 PM) [snapback]347910[/snapback]</div>

Radon might be a better choice. =P Hell, think of what it would do for pulse and glide... get up to speed and coast for 5 miles. =P But then, I'd hate to be a tire attendant at a shop that filled tires with it.

N2 is probably one of the "safest" gasses you could use in a tire. Yes, normal every day air is probably fine, but N2 probably will slightly increase the life of the tire by reducing oxidation of the inner sidewall. Over time, normal air usage is going to lead toward higher and higher concentrations of N2 (that is, until you get a flat and have to start from scratch). I'm actually surprised that tire manufacturers/sellers haven't started saying "this tire has a 80,000 mile limited warranty so long as they are filled with concentrated N2". Gimmick, may be, but one that would lead to fewer warranty filings and higher profits for sellers.

Go with what you feel like. N2 is cheap to produce, and abundant. The minute we stop being able to produce high concentration N2 is the day we all stop breathing, and I assure you all the plants will long be dead before that. It's certainly more economical than filling tires with He (which would be absurd). If it's worth it to someone to pay for N2 because they'll have to spend less time checking and refilling tires, go for it. If it's worth it to be able to have a mini-compressor in your trunk and "top off" a tire at a whim, then N2 is probably a waste of money (unless, as said, you can get it for free).

As for FE... I don't see any way, other than maintaining accurate pressure longer, than N2 is going to help. A diligent tire checker, filler, is going to get just as good FE as someone that puts N2 in their tires. Me, I'd do it just because I'm a nerd (which is why I bought a prius). Problem is, I'm not willing to pay for it, and I have yet to find a place that'll give me N2 without having tires purchased from them (our costco is bitchy like that).

-Staze