If you were thinking of purchasing a C-Max over a Prius v, read this

Discussion in 'Ford/Lincoln Hybrids and EVs' started by 2013-Prius v, Jun 20, 2013.

  1. 2013-Prius v

    2013-Prius v 2013 Prius v 5

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  2. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    Ah oh... :eek:

    I like the looks of the v over the Ford.

    Mike

    Mobile on my SGH-i717
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ouch. if someone previously owned toyota, they may be disappointed. but if they're a ford person or other poor quality make, they may take it in stride. most people seem to be happy with their ford hybrids.
     
  4. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    What did you expect? No (hybrid experience) and NO "track record."

    Je ne sais quoi!

    Ich weisses nicht!

    No se!

    I do know, however, from years of experience, that you make a small market of "test articles" and listen, listen, and again, listen to the users of your product, before offering it to a wide market.

    Once your product is out there with thousands of samples, it's hard to correct "design flaws."
     
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  5. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    Now Ford needs to come out with a new commercial stating that their hybrid car's have no chance in hell of making the mpg claims they boasted about in their original commercials. Maybe big gov should jump their nice person like they did Hyundai for their mpg claims? At least the Elantra and Sonata could beat their own advertised mpg figures with ease :D Don't try that with a Ford :oops:

    Mike

    Mobile on my SGH-i717
     
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  6. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    There are methods and technologies known as "tried and true."

    Introducing technology for the sake of empty technologies that are more complicated and harder to use is, effectively, the Rube Goldberg approach of getting things done.


    While some are effectively "awed" by this high tech "trial balloon," the experienced user IS NOT!

    Checking air pressure in your tires do not need an IPad app. A $3 tire gauge will do just fine. Who needs a solid gold diamond encrusted shovel.
     
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  7. WE0H

    WE0H Senior Member

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    That might be a good retirement investment shovel :p

    Mike

    Mobile on my SGH-i717
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Not good publicity for Ford. However, it is a 90 day quality survey for a brand new model. The common wisdom of not buying a first year model or redesign has some statistical backing to it. No manufacturer is immune. An example CR used in an article (from 2004-5)on how badly a make/model can fall in quality is the gen2 Rav4. This is just another example.

    There isn't much that can derived about the model's long term quality perception from the number of complaints without knowing what they were. Some are about MyFord, which no one likes. Some likely the real world fuel economy. Speculation beyond that will just get more wild.
     
  9. Blu-ray

    Blu-ray Blizzard Brigade #215

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    Hence why I don't buy Ford anymore.
     
  10. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Henry Ford and his company has a sordid past of anti-Semitism and oppression of his workers.

    The last big scandal was the Ford Pinto. They considered reinforcing the rear against fire on rear impact but calculated that the liability that they would pay off in legal actions would be less. To the, sacrificing a few human lives was a monetary business decision.

    That kind of reminds you of the current Chrysler Jeep recall and the MHSTA, doesn't it?
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Henry Ford is long dead. Any recent news on them oppressing their workers?

    The case against the Pinto was not as cut and dry as is it was presented at the time. The memo the supposedly showed Ford putting a value on a human life was actually based on the NHSTA's regulations on the value of a human life.
    Ford Pinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I posted some more links over in the Jeep recall thread.

    Ford has at least 8 years of market experience with hybrids. The Escape hybrid, IIRC, came out in 2004 as a 2005 model. It did beat the HiHy to market. Many of them served as NYC taxis without problems. This is actually the second generation of Fusion hybrid. There was no major problems with the first gen or the Escape.

    There is no major problems in C-max. If there was, we'd being seeing the complaints by now. Fuel economy not meeting EPA is a problem. It isn't a reflection of any design flaws or serious issues with the car though. It appears to be do to Ford playing fast and loose with the testing rules, and shame on them for doing so.

    We have no idea what type of problems were reported in the JD Powers 90 day survey. Most of them could be in relation to the MyFord telematics. Ford did drop the ball on it, and there are complaints against it in all their models. The complaints can also include ones on fuel economy. We also don't know anything beyond an average number of reported problems per 100 cars. Are the issues mostly with earlier produced cars, and it got better? Maybe they are already fixed. Could a couple of real lemons be skewing the average?

    Cars are complicated pieces of machinary and technology. Plenty of places for a real problem to crop up. The Prius has plenty TSBs listed here. I'm disappointed in Ford's handling of their current hybrids fuel economy. This also doesn't look good. It is a survey covering the first 90 days of ownership of a new car model that hasn't even been available for year. It might have no bearing of the long term reliability of the model.
     
  12. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    It's hard to forget that Adolf Hitler modeled the Volkswagen after Henry Ford's Model T.

    Just tell the 6 million Jews who were killed in Europe to "forget."

    Another issue is Bayer, who has started again to market insecticides. They were IG Farben, DEGESH and Zyklon B.
     
  13. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    Henry Ford died 66 years ago. I'm pretty sure there aren't any anti-Semitic aspects to the way the company currently does business. Having worked as a supplier to each of the Detroit 3 I'd say that Ford easily has the most loyal employee base.

    The last Ford Pinto rolled off the line 33 years ago. If that was their last big scandal I think they're doing pretty well :)

    MHSTA? Do you mean NHTSA?
     
  14. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    In what respect? It sure came out different!
     
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  15. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    They both have 4 wheels and an engine on one end. Other than that....?
     
  16. bubbatech

    bubbatech Member

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    The article does not specify the nature of the problems. If it is something with the drive train, that's one thing. On the other hand, for all we know, it could be loose carpet or a missing dashboard insert. Without more detail, we don't know what "worst quality" means. The headline could, potentially,be extremely misleading.
     
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  17. 2013-Prius v

    2013-Prius v 2013 Prius v 5

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    Imagine what you will get when your ready to sell the car or you could use the article as leverage if you want to purchase the C.



    iPhone ?
     
  18. Mike500

    Mike500 Senior Member

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    Until 1938, many industrialist saw Hitler's Germany as the German Miracle, including Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. Hitler was seen as the personification of Henry Ford in Germany. The Volkswagen was seen as Hitler's gift to the people. The word means "People's Car." Instead, Hitler's lie was just an excuse to make war machines. The Volkswagen became the Kubelwagen (literally, bucket car."

    Up until after WWII, very few Jews in the US purchased Ford products.

    Today, IG Farben still remains as a shadow company. The Jews who worked as slave labor at the IG Auschwitz Monowitz Buna plant were never reimbursed for their labor after the war. Agfa, BASF, Bayer AG and the others claim no connection to IG Farben of which they were a part of.

    Hitler hated the Jews, because the WWI Treaty of Versailles reparations mandated in 1919 went to the New York Jewish financiers in New York to whom the Allies borrowed heavily to finance WWI.


    Basically, it's always all about the money.

    What you read about in High School and Undergraduate history books has been sanitized, by corporate PR campaigns.
     
  19. Jeff N

    Jeff N The answer is 0042

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    That just intuitively makes good sense.

    Meanwhile, my last 3 cars -- 2001 Prius, 2004 Prius, 2011 Volt -- we're all ordered at the earliest opportunity and my cars were among the first U.S. deliveries. All three worked out well.

    But if I wasn't buying the latest edgy tech, I would certainly wait until the second year of a new model.
     
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  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That's the problem with these type of surveys. They give any details. Driving car with a hundred minor to trivial problems that are just annoyances is better than driving the car with one problem that could leave you stranded. Another issue is that the problems may not actually be real problems. The gen2 Prius brakes made some unfamiliar noises. Those that didn't read the manual could have called it a problem on these surveys.

    An issue in this case is that JD Powers never releases the worse to the public. So there is no comparison to how bad the worse is. The C-max had 222 per 100 vehicles. If previous years worse car was 300+, this is actually a good sign that the industry has improved as a whole.
     
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