1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

I'm now putting 20w50 in my Prius. Arrrrh!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by uart, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I've been using 5w30 in my Prius for the past 8 years or so, and over that time the oil consumption has slowly increased as it's now pretty high mileage (312,000 km).

    Recently I changed from an ACEA A3/B4 rated 5w30 oil (castrol edge A3/B4) to a more fuel efficiency oriented GF5/Dexos1 oil (Penrite Enviro+ GF5 5w30). Suddenly with the new oil the rate of oil consumption nearly doubled, from about 250 mL per 2000 km up to about 450mL per 2000 km.

    Although they are both 5w30, the new oil is a fair bit thinner and has lower HTHS viscosity. As far as I can tell that's the only thing that is causing it to use more. Anyway, I decided to start topping it off with 20w50 and see if that would slow it down. Right now I'm up to about 750 mL of this 20w50 top off for this oil change and it seems to be working, the oil consumption is definitely slowing down.

    Unfortunately I bought a few 5L jugs of this thinner oil so I've still got a couple of them to use up. I'm seriously considering blending the stuff with my 20w50 (at about 1 part in 4) for my next few oil changes. :)
     
    #1 uart, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    SFO and m.wynn like this.
  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    5,597
    3,771
    0
    Location:
    So. Texas
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    In the USA market, we have oil blends specifically targeted at older, high mileage engines. Do you have those and/or tried those blends? Anyone here try them? Do they lower consumption?
     
  3. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yeah but not a lot of choice it seems. I wanted to give "Valvoline Maxlife" a try in this engine but it's so hard to find here. Eventually I found it, but only the "semi synth" stuff in the red bottle, and only in 20w50 (seriously, no other grade here at all in that product).

    At first I balked at it (as I haven't used 20w50 in anything for a long time), but then I thought what the heck - it can't hurt to blend some in as top off oil. Anyway, I've topped off a few times now and added about 3/4 of a quart of the stuff, and the last 2000 km it seems to have eased back to about 300 ml consumed which is an improvement.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,313
    3,588
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Hi UART...have you seen some of the threads about using Techron to help reduce oil consumption?
     
  5. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yeah I have read a few people's reports of success with Techron here. Do you just add it to your fuel, or do you have to do piston soaks or something with it?

    I do usually run some injector cleaner through it (in the fuel) once or twice per year. Up until now I haven't been too worried about the oil consumption though, it wasn't ideal but at about 1L per 8000 km (5000 miles) it never bothered me.
     
  6. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,313
    3,588
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    As far as Techron post by CHOGAN2, I think he put high doses in the fuel for a little while.
    Others may have tried alternate approaches.
     
  7. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    BAD idea.
    Nobody but an "oil chemist" knows if the additives in the two are compatible or not.
    I suggest that you sell or give away the thin stuff and find some 20W40 or 20W50 High Mileage variety and stick with that.
     
  8. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I take your point SAM, however I'm talking about adding a relatively small quantity of the 20w50, perhaps 800mL per oil change. TBH, I've often used different brands of top off oil (like whatever I've got left over) in the past and I've never had any issues. As Austin Powers would say, "I like to live dangerously". ;)

    Manufacturers know that people will sometimes use a different brand to top off and they make them at least compatible enough that nothing drastic will happen. However I do take your point that it's not ideal.

    CITGO.com, Consumer Products, Oils, Engine Oil Myths
     
    SFO likes this.
  9. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    So the bottom line here is that you are going to do what you want to do regardless of the advice you get from anyone......including Citgo ??

    "Mixing oils is not the best practice......"
     
  10. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yes.
     
    padroo, edthefox5, Rmay635703 and 2 others like this.
  11. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    891
    1,796
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoan in TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I put Techron in my Gen 2 when I had it. It was old, but low mileage (~79K miles). It's a gasoline additive that you add to a low tank before refill. It did help with mileage.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  12. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    1,097
    563
    0
    Location:
    MSP
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    If my math and the conversions are right, 450ml/2000km ~ 0.38 qt/1000 miles. At the low consumption level, if you call it using oil, you would not normally add more than a quart between oil changes.

    I would NOT suggest increasing viscosity in an attempt to reduce this, unless you live in a high ambient area.
     
  13. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    You've got the conversion a little out there. A litre is a little more than a quart, so it comes out to about 2.4 quarts per 10,000 km, which is the recommended oil change interval here.

    Yeah I'm in a fairly high ambient temperature region here. Nothing extreme, but very likely to have multiple 100F + days over the next few months and unlikely to see much under 60F at all. So no real need for very low viscosity oils for me.

    The increase in viscosity that I've got is nothing too drastic anyway. With what I've blended I'd estimate it still in the 10w30 range according to this widman calculator. See: Mixing viscosities | Widman International
     
    edthefox5 and SFO like this.
  14. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2016
    1,097
    563
    0
    Location:
    MSP
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Toyota has a PM interval of 6200 miles in OZ? In North America the recommendation is a 5,000 mile interval.

    Even then, the use rate is WELL below actionable and could be easily explained by a bad PCV valve or high operating speeds.
     
  15. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    5,286
    4,226
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    How does one gauge the quality of a used or failing PCV?

    I've taken one off (rattled it) and cleaned it (sprayed some solvent and only solvent came out), then after checking for proper air flow at both ends I also checked for oil inside either end of the rubber connection hose (looked dry enough)... figuring it was still in good working order I stuck it back together again.

    Just for reference, doing 80mph in warmer climes with a thinner weight oil appears to cause more oil loss in mine.
     
    Mendel Leisk, uart and Raytheeagle like this.
  16. uart

    uart Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    4,215
    1,200
    0
    Location:
    Australia
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Yes, same observation here SFO. High engine RPM (especially "B" mode in mountains) does seem to make it consume oil faster.

    Up until this experiment I wasn't too sure what the effect of increasing viscosity would be, but now I know that (at least in my particular engine) higher viscosity definitely does result in lower consumption. I don't want to go crazy with high viscosity or anything, but I'm considering giving it a run on 10w40 over summer just to see how it goes (and in particular to see if I notice any change in fuel economy).

    Yeah, I think they just like to have a nice round number, so 5k miles in the US and 10k km here in Australia. Did you know that in the UK they (Toyota) even specify a 10K mile interval on the Gen2 Prius.

    Yes it's not a serious problem to me, but still I was happier when it was about 1.0 to 1.5L per 10,000 km. :)

    At the moment, with about 750 mL of the 20w50 blended in, it seems to be back inline with about 1.5L per 10,000 km.
     
    m.wynn likes this.
  17. m.wynn

    m.wynn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2013
    684
    1,226
    0
    Location:
    Queensbury, NY
    Vehicle:
    2014 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    uart, I did several fills of A3/B4 German/Belgian Castrol 0w-30 followed by 3 or 4 fills GC 0w-40 and current Penz Euro 0w-40 in our '07. Consumption is at ~20-24 ounces over 5-6k mile oci's with the car at 175k miles. Prior, the car was burning ~32 ounces of conventional SN 5w-30 over 5k oci's til I made the switch at ~117k miles. The A3/B4's smooth out the "sewing machine" tick and the car averages ~48 mpg long-term with my younger daughter and her "just drive it" style behind the wheel. The car really seems to do well with these oils, running smoothly and with no obvious hit to mpg. No uoa's, though...

    Xw-40 will be great for yours, and even better if you stay A3/B4 with regard to consumption. Your observations of the higher HTHS mirrors mine completely. I've been planning to move my 2010 (145k miles) to full-syn dexos 5w-30 from 0w-20 when/if it starts burning, but lately have been thinking I'll go straight to one of the light, A3/B4 0w-40's.
     
    uart and Raytheeagle like this.
  18. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    It is not nice to change a quote that somebody else posted.
    Please don't do that again.
     
  19. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    2,036
    1,023
    0
    Location:
    USA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius c
    Model:
    Four
    Why NOT ??
    Parts have worn. The clearances are larger.
    A slightly thicker oil should fill those voids better.
    And it certainly will not hurt anything.
     
    SFO and uart like this.
  20. priusb78

    priusb78 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    52
    46
    0
    Location:
    Nuremberg, Germany
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Hello uart,
    my Prius 2005 also started around 200000 km to consume more oil (approx. 200ml/1000 km), esp. if I go faster than 140 km/h on the German highways. I changed to 5W-40 full-synth oil which brought significant improvements (<100ml/1000km).

    I assume the Australian winter is much warmer than ours. We can have temps down to -25 C. If I were you I would try a 10W-40 and see if that helps. If not I would even try a full fill with 20W-50.

    Good luck!
    Thorsten
     
    uart likes this.