Immigration bill

The bill, unfortunately, blurs together issues of differing urgency.

The border needs to be physically secured, yesterday, to stop Ali Jihadi from walking a barrel of mustard gas into the US, not to stop Juan the orange harvester from slipping in and making a few hard-earned dollars.

The illegals already here are, for the overwhelming majority, participants in the Americal economy, and simply tossing them out (which I assume is part of what the "enforce the existing law" crowd is advocating) would be a...ummm, nontrivial upset to our economy. Not saying we couldn't survive it (we survived 1929), but I think there are less radical ways to address the problem.

I don't think we should hand out citizenship as a reward for breaking our law (by sneaking in to begin with), but some sort of probation for those who apply for it, and summary deportation for those who don't, would be a reasonable carrot-and-stick approach.

 

SECURE THE BORDER and NO AMNESTY!

ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ethereal @ Jun 14 2007, 08:58 PM) [snapback]462039[/snapback]</div>

Well said. My biggest reason for not supporting the bill in it's current form is the absolutely stupid requirement that the head-of-household return to the country of origin to apply. When he or she does this they WILL lose their job here in the US and their family will lose there source of income. Like it or not these people are here to stay and their children are U.S. citizens. You can't just deport them or you instantly create a bunch of orphans. Why would you purposely set up the process so that you know the head-of-household and source of income for the family will loose their job?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 14 2007, 11:15 PM) [snapback]462082[/snapback]</div>

I could use the same argument for any crime committed in the US. Does Scooter Libby have children and a wife? If he does, then let's just give him a pass for breaking the law. Does Mike Nifong (Duke nonrape case) have a family? Let's just give him a pass, too. I could go on and on, but you get the point. There should be no reward for breaking the law.

This same amnesty bill was done in twice before in 1965 and either 1974 or 84. Both times Senator Kennedy promised this would solve the problem. Here he is again claiming the same thing. The first one started the problem. It told people from other countries to just come on over. Eventually we will give you citizenship for free.

What you punish will slow or stop. What you reward will continue and increase.

If your business is not viable without illegal foreign workers, then it is not viable and should not be protected by the government.

 

I heard Geraldo last night claim that illegals have a lower crome rate than American citizens. How can that possibly be given that all people here illegally have broken the law by definition?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roryjr @ Jun 15 2007, 07:24 AM) [snapback]462252[/snapback]</div>

AMEN! i get so digusted when i hear/read kids used as an excuse not to punish these ciminals (and YES... they BROKE THE LAW... they ARE criminals!)

and as for them coming here illegal and dropping kids.... i don't think our forefathers ever meant this use of being born here instantlhy makes you a citizen....

and for god's sake LEARN AND USE FREAKIN' ENGLISH!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ethereal @ Jun 14 2007, 09:58 PM) [snapback]462039[/snapback]</div>

Agreed!

Amazing how universal is the overwhelming opposition to this bill by all Americans.

President Bush and the other politico's are really outatouch in their continued pursuit of this.

I say:

1. SECURE THE BORDERS - YESTERDAY
2. NATIONAL ID CARD - WITH BIOMETRICS
3. Guest worker program
4. End the stupid law of any baby born here is an automatic citizen here if their parents are NOT American citizens.
5. enforce current laws on employing illegals


we must choose who and why we let people in here - and they must conduct themselves appropriately.

we must demand they speak english for the sake of their children and assimilation into our society.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 15 2007, 08:42 AM) [snapback]462336[/snapback]</div>

two more AMENS! (and they should especially NOT automaticially be citizens if their parents are here illegally!!!!!! talk about a slap in the face!

 

ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL

I harbor no support for amnesty regardless of the terms in which it is expressed. Recent statistics of the costs to our society to provide healthcare for ILLEGALS make me very angry. Giving citizenship of one born to ILLEGALS in the USA is absurd. I believe a baby born to an ILLEGAL in the USA is an ILLEGAL, not an American Citizen. ILLEGALS convicted of any crime should be ejected from the USA permanently. A process allowing an ILLEGAL to expand his/her family bringing other ILLEGAL family members in is simply wrong.

English *IS* our language. It is no less than insulting that some 2nd generation still prefer to speak another language and expect me to accomodate their unwillingness to learn English... or inability to learn. It is further insulting to publish ballots and public notices in any foreign language. If I moved to Germany, I'd learn to speak German, not expect the Germans to speak English to me. I'd feel the same about Mexico, Russia, Norway... or any other country.

 

Shut the border now! Otherwise anything else to do with immigration is totally useless.

Here's my proposal:
Bring back the troops, esp. from places like Germany and such where they aren't needed, and start building our US bases on the border. This way, they can provide a dual purpose of securing, the border, while providing bases, training camps, etc. Rather than just posting people along a fence in the desert.

IF the border is secure, then turn to the existing illegals and make a compromise.
Come forward, sign up, or be deported as you are found. If you sign up, we will establish a citenzenship process. You will pay taxes like everyone else, but you will not be eligible for benefits (SS, Medicare, etc) for x number of years. As a partial citizen, you are not allowed to buy guns, get hazmat clearance, etc. You are also not eligible for the child tax credit. If you don't already speak English, you will enroll in classes to do so, that we will pay for. After say 10 years, you will be eligible for 50% of the benefits of full citizens, and full benefits after 20 years and official citenzenship.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Charles Suitt @ Jun 15 2007, 01:49 PM) [snapback]462417[/snapback]</div>

right on!

what dont out politicians get about this?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jun 15 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]462432[/snapback]</div>

I have an add-on suggestion that would solve the cost of building a wall along the entire border with mexico -

i would hire 100,000 illegal mexicans to build the wall - i would give them a guest worker card good for their working life in return for their labor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 15 2007, 11:33 AM) [snapback]462453[/snapback]</div>

that's what i keep trying to figure out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still wondering if charles reads my posts???????????????? (i read his!)

 

I like that idea David, allthough we do have to have to have really good inspections, make sure no doggie doors get installed.

 

Our politicians keep spinning the data, along with the media, about our "wishes".


Georgia is overun with illegals. They don't pay taxes, insurance (and they drive and cause lots of accidents and disappear). They don't spend much money here because they send it back to mexico tax free.

I am tired of the arguement about them paying taxes and spending money. They don't spend near enough to offset the free education, medical care, hospital care, local programs, and info printed in Spanish to make them comfy cozy here. They are treated like first class citizens, while we foot the bill.

They break laws by being here. They break the laws with false ID, They break the law by not paying taxes and break the law by driving without insurance. Why do we let them get drivers licenses in the first place?? We know that they don't get insurance. We reward certain criminals that break lots of laws.

All of our costs have gone up to foot the bills for these freeloaders. I don't need a Mexican worker (which on average in Georgia is paid $18.00 per hour. I don't need cheap lettuce and vegetables (which aren't cheap). I don't eat chicken.

I don't blame these people. They are smart enough to work our screwed up system. I blame our crooked government that has found a way for middle class Americans to subsidize these workers for the rich.

Ask me how many friends a relatives have been in accidents where there is no insurance and these folks just disappear, with useless warrants out for their arrests? They don't go to court, but I can show you where they live. Yep they are still here.


I don't want illegals that lie and cheat to get here. I want immigrants that are the best and brightest with no criminal background and something to offer the US. The rest of the world does not accept millions of illegals that plan to break their laws from the begining, known criminals and freeloaders. Hell they don't accept "educated immigrants" with something to contribute.

I think most Mexicans are hardworking. But they are working the system, and we have to stop it. They need to know they can't break laws and make crazy demands like first class citizens.

Send them home and reform Immigration standards and pathways.

 

I view this bill as a mixture of Democrat attempts to suck up to the hispanic vote, and Republican attempts to control indentured servitude (aka "guest workers").

Enforce the minimum wage, make sure that employers of illegal immigrants serve jail time, and the rest will be easy.

 

Politically it is very difficult for any politician to vote against any package that hurts illegal aliens. That is why no real solutions are being offered.

1. You should not be a US citizen if your mother was here illegally when she gave birth to you. That is the law in almost every country except the US.

2. Secure the Border.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roryjr @ Jun 15 2007, 09:24 AM) [snapback]462252[/snapback]</div>

The difference is that they must leave the country and return to their country of origin for guaranteed reentry into the U.S. So if you leave the country then we will welcome you back with open arms. What's the point? Meanwhile their family sits here in the U.S. and the man loses his job. It will have the effect of lowering their standard of living and causing even more to turn to the government help for housing, food, and medical care. Again, what is the purpose?

Scooter Libby is being sent to prison as punishment for a crime. The illegal immigrants are paying a fine and waiting 7 to 10 years for citizenship while jumping through hoops. Both are being punished.

To all those that say that a child born to a non-citizen should not become a citizen, tough. Maybe you're right, but that is not the law as spelled out by our constitution. You can complain all you want but it doesn't change the fact that if you deport the illegal parents you are suck with millions of now orphans that are legal citizens and now the legal responsibility of the state. What's the solution for this after you deport all the illegal parents? Like it or not you can't just round everyone up and deport them.

 

I believe our immigration policies need some serious and immediate reform. No one should have to wait 10-15 years to find out if they can enter the country legally or not.

However, I do NOT support amnesty in any way. Those who have broken the law and are here ILLEGALLY should not get a free pass or be allowed to go to the "front of the line" just because they've managed to stay under the radar. We did amnesty once. It didn't work. It only showed that if you break the law, you will be rewarded.

So they're going to have to come up with something else.

BTW I personally like a point system of some kind although I do not think that should be the sole deciding factor.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jun 15 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]462336[/snapback]</div>