Infiniti Boss Puts Electric LE Sedan on Indefinite Hold; Cites Product Priorities as Reason for Dela

An Infiniti with the Leaf powertrain, but a more powerful motor, same battery pack for an epa of 75 miles is probably not going to be enough to sell as a luxury vehicle. The Model S 60Kwh is epa-rated at 208 miles.

 

Luxury sedans are normally power hogs and heavy - not good characteristics for an BEV or even a plug-in.
Add a higher capacity battery and the recharge time even with a 220vac is going to take a long time,
and for the rich - time is money so waiting a long time for the vehicle to charge up isn't going sit well.
Hybrid systems are more practical for a luxury sedan.

 

I rather agree that a phev might serve infiniti better, but.... they are investing a lot of money in bevs, and they should have an infiniti bev to help out. The Tesla S seems to be selling better than any other plug-in with its 60kwh and 85kwh packs. I don't think owners are waiting around they are charging when they sleep. I do think if the infiniti only had 85 mile range when fully charged like the leaf, and leaf acceleration it would be a fail. Performance numbers more like the Rav4 EV might give it a chance (7s 0-60, 100+ mile range, liquid cooled pack).

 

I think we have enough vehicle diversity with 75-125 mile range (at least in CA where you can get the RAV4 EV to fill the SUV market space).

The next thing the market wants is more battery size options. Someone other than Tesla needs to step up with a 200+ EV range with some form of quick charging.

I haven't heard any plans for this from any of the big manufacturers other than a vague statement of plans from GM's CEO who is sometimes credibility-challenged.

 

The super wealthy are a demanding and impatient lot for the most part (at least in the DC area) - having to wait several hours just to drive a car it's going to go over well with that kind of crowd - a heavier battery pack only makes things worst. Fuel efficiency isn't a big thing for the super rich either since fuel cost is the last thing they worry about. I agree with Audi's CEO that the the super rich who buy relatively lower cost BEVs (;ie the Nissan Leaf or the Honda Fit EV) are ones who want to make a political statement about the environment. However, IMHO - for most of the very wealthy in the Metro DC - the environment isn't even on their radar. For the top 1% - it is all about power - power is equated to money and how fast you can get it. Here in the Metro DC area, environmentalist are labelled and treated as freaks, geeks and counter culture hippies. So while I may not like what the head of Infinit's market segment assessment - I think he's got his market profile correct. It's an inconvenient truth of sorts. Overnight recharging requirements limits a vehicle's appeal and so BEVs will never be mass produced at the same rate as a popular ICE car like the Corolla. The Tesla gots around this limitation by focusing their first BEV on the exotic sport car market segment rather than as an ecologically friendly car. Knowing that they cannot sell that many cars per year, the Telsa charges much much more per car - so the high cost makes their car more exclusive and helps boost their exotic appeal. Even then some purist like BBC Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson went after Tesla for straying too far from the tradition. Recently, politicians in states like Virginia are focusing in on levying higher fees/taxes on alternative energy vehicles like BEV - which negates any financial advantage one might gain from using residential electricity over gasoline or diesel. Because of these recent trend to make alternative vehicles into political scapegoats , the ROI for BEVs and Plug-in won't looking very good.

Until battery and the charging tech changes, the only BEV's main advantage over conventional ICE is with having a potentially lower scheduled maintenance requirements.

 

I guess those happy tesla buyers are those super wealthy politician types then. Al Gore got government funding for fisker and got a karma. I wonder how that business plan is working out.

Can you give me a list of the super rich that have bought a leaf or fit ev? Until then I may think of that as an argument for keeping milk and cookies always available because santa might drop by.

OK so every one in DC is probably going to hell and we can write them off. umm, I don't really believe that , but who really cares about one metro area. What about where the bulk of BEVs are likely to go. California, Florida, Texas, New York, Illonois, and Washington State. Should we really care about what the adopters are likely to buy instead of pandering to what you think the politicians are going to buy?

I'm glad we have Elon Musk around. He might not be a car insider, but hey, he knows when to ignore the wisdom of Jeremy Clarkson. The last I checked Tesla was selling higher dollar volume of plug-ins than nissan, and had invested much less money.[/quote]

 

I think there is a big difference between these two groups. The super wealthy are more like the top 0.01 - 0.001%.

Mike

 

I disagree. All the rich people I know (and I know a few fabulously rich people), do not like spending money they don't have to. I guess it depends how you made your money. If it was easy come, then it's easy go and fuel economy doesn't matter. If you've built your way up the hard way, then sure, have a nice car, but you don't just want to flush money down the toilet.

How many rich people actually drive Prii or Teslas?

We have a phrase here "money talks, wealth whispers". So the real rich don't have to show it or blow it!

 

I think what you want to say is that the rich want a good value for their money.
I agree.
However, value itself is subjective - and depends on a person's motivations and aspirations.
For example, what does it mean to be a *nice* car?
Much of that is going to depends on what *nice* means to you.
With the exception of the Prius, alternative energy vehicles are not big sellers in the DC area.

What I've notice is that when the cost of the vehicle and fuel cost is relatively inexpensive to a person's income - fuel efficiency is not a high value factor - other factors like safety, performance, comfort, and so forth become more important. When people are really poor - its the cost of the vehicle that matters most. When people are somewhere in the middle - people start caring about both the cost of the vehicle and the cost of fuel and try to balance these things out. I do know a few people who six digit income - and they often opt for conventional Luxury SUVs or sedans. The Prius does attract more of the +50 crowd (empty nesters) than the +30 crowd in the DC Area. Most families and dink power couple favor the SUV - it sits higher, people think its safer, carries more, and lastly many perceive it to be more assertive -aggressively in traffic. So far I've only seen a Tesla once on the roadways here in DC. I've seen almost a dozen or so Nissan Leafs and Volts. The Prius family dominates the DC roadways wrt to hybrids and alternative vehicles..

 

My experience, when an individual's annual income rises over 125,000 USD ( atleast for those living here in the DC area), there is a very high tendency for that person to start acting, thinking, differently from the rest of the world. This is more like the top 7% rather than the top .01%.

 

Yeah, that is probably the salary of people that do audits at the IRS...or direct people at other offices to do them.

Mike