Featured Insight III

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Apr 2, 2018.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Source: 2019 Honda Insight First Look | Edmunds

    It looks as if Honda has learned from its mistakes and, in the process, may have created the perfect compact hybrid in the new 2019 Honda Insight, set to debut this week at the 2018 New York Auto Show. A typical sedan profile replaces the previous model's Prius-aping hatchback design, while the front end bears more than a passing resemblance to the Accord. The Honda Insight's interior design closely mimics that of other vehicles in its manufacturer's lineup. Looking like a cross between the cabins of the Civic and Accord, the Insight's interior goes for familiarity rather than the Prius' "look at me, I'm a hybrid!" plasticky mess of a dashboard.
    . . .
    The new Insight is motivated by a 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine — paired to a motor-generator — that provides electricity to the battery pack and electric propulsion motor that normally drives the front wheels. While accelerating hard or traveling at higher speeds, a lock-up clutch connects the engine to the drive axles for an extra boost. Total system power stands at 151 horsepower and 197 pound-feet of torque, more than the Prius and Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid offer. As far as fuel economy goes, Honda says the Insight gets 55 mpg in city driving, about the same as those two cars.
    . . .​

    Actually I was not really all that interested but it does sound like Honda is trying. But what piqued my interest is this 'music video':


    Really? Compare a hybrid Insight to a plugin Prius Prime? Punching above it's weight. Still, I do like the music.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #1 bwilson4web, Apr 2, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  2. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Yes really. That just means Honda marketing has no clue about the competition they should be targeting.
    If it is priced as comparable to the Prime it will be overpriced because it will not have all the government incentives available to the Prime purchaser.
     
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  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    honda is an enigma.
     
  4. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    As is Toyota US. They still insist the Camry is a car but the Camry Hybrid is not - It is a Hybrid.
    upload_2018-4-2_9-10-19.png

    upload_2018-4-2_9-11-10.png
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It doesn't appear Honda made that video.
     
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  6. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Looks like the insight III is a better civic hybrid. I'm not sure why they are keeping the name. This would have been a great vehicle in 2012 ;-) With the camry, fusion, accord, and sonata hybrids being so good, I'm not sure who would take this instead. Plus it has to compete with the clarity phev, volt, and prius prime.
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    So that they can have a premium compact vehicle with a premium price and not have people go "I'm not paying that much for a Civic!"
     
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  8. priusgto

    priusgto Active Member

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    Been checking out the fuelly reports on the 19 Insight and they sure don't look promising. Only 14 vehicles listed with 66 fuel-ups tracked, for an average of 50.5 MPGs. Once there's some winter data mixed in those averages are sure to plummet and fall well below it's rating.
     
  9. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Yeah, except for the video and the comparison aren't being made by Honda or Honda Marketing, it's being made by "Cars and Technology".-a separate independent entity.

    It may be sacrilege in some circles, but I respect BOTH Toyota and Honda products, and have owned and enjoyed both.

    In and around 2010, I was considering 3 vehicles seriously. Honda Fit, Honda Insight and Toyota Prius, end of 2nd Gen and New 3rd Gen. Prius.
    Maybe secretly I was really hoping he Insight would be the winner. But IMO it just couldn't compete with the 3rd Gen Prius, either in refinement and end product, but also price and value.

    The Insight got some IMO unfair reviews. Jeremy Clarkson...I'm talking to you.
    But the most toxic thing to it's success I believe was Honda dealers themselves, and eventually Honda. I saw local dealers marking up prices, making getting an Insight as expensive an investment as a Prius II.
    I think if Honda could of held the pricing line, and met more of the reality of the battle cry of being the "Hybrid For Everyone", the Insight may of been more successful.
    Also, once sales floundered, Honda basically stopped even trying.

    I can't tell from that video.
    I would suspect Honda doesn't really even want to go head to head with Prius again.
    As a sedan, with a slide through trunk, and NOT a plug in vehicle, I think Honda is doing just the opposite. They are trying to sidestep direct comparison. Not really their fault that comparison is going to come anyway. It's inevitable.

    When it hits showrooms, what I would be interested in, is what it is as a product individually.
    Interesting that it is a sedan, but it's obviously not a Hybrid Accord, or Hybrid CIvic. It's another swing at reviving the Insight nameplate, and giving Honda a direct Hybrid.

    With products like Prius Prime, and the 4th Gen Prius, I just have to wonder if it's too little too late. Toyota has already come back, with the sportier looking, higher performing "Prius". Which does also include the utility of a hatchback.

    I suspect this isn't going to be marketed as "The Hybrid For Everyone", I suspect it's going to be as expensive as a Prius Prime. That may make it a tough.
    Having even a GREAT Hybrid may not be enough. Toyota already has them.
    This may be the Insight that should of been...in 2010.
     
  10. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    base Insight LX is $23,725 sticker price (w dest & handling). Base Prime is $28,220 sticker. Prime is $4500 more. I guess you can make that up in discounts and credits?
     
  11. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    • Insight is only hybrid, no pure EV operation.
    • Prime has a large battery, charger circuit, plug, and 25 mi EV range.
    The extra EV stuff in the Prime could easily cost $4500.

    FYI, I test drove a Honda Insight earlier this year and it is everything the Gen-1 Prius should have been. Inflation adjusted, it is about the same price as the Gen-1 Prius.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #11 bwilson4web, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  12. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    I don't buy the comments 'Insight III would have been good in 2010 or 2012' .....

    Sedan hybrids with no loss of trunk space and fold down rear seats first became available in 2018 model year with Accord and Camry hybrid.

    That said, Honda will continue to sell a couple thousand a month Insights. They'll probably take it away after two model years, give it a year off like Accord hybrid.
     
  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    To compare you need to look at the Prius One for base pricing. List starts at $23,475.
     
    #13 Prodigyplace, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Being a long time Civic owner, I do like the styling of new Insight, but yeah it is not to be compared to PRIME which is PHEV. For me, after switching from HCH to Prius (Gen3), hatchback is the only way I will go. At my age, looks is less important. That said, if Honda makes Civic Hatch Hybrid, I may go back to it.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    There is also the fact that the Civic hybrid's name is mud after the battery issue and the way Honda handled it.

    New cars will always start low as the tires aren't broken in.
     
  16. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    My Prius id rated 52 MPG combined. The 150 mile highway drive home from the dealership (starting with 9 miles on the odometer) was over 59 mpg.
    I guess Prius tires break-in period is less than 10 miles ;)
     
  17. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Would of been better than the Insight II. Which was too much a direct competitor with the Gen 3 Prius and IMO just not enough of a product given price and value.

    That's exactly why I say it may be too little too late for the Insight III. The Prius itself has been upgraded to be sportier and better looking. And as you point out Accord and Camry already compete as Hybrid Sedans.

    To change topics....

    Have things changed?
    When I looked at Prius about 5 years ago...on the dealership lot, consumer level, Prius I's were really non-existent. They were being sold primarily as fleet vehicles.
    On the lot's...Prius II's were really Toyota's direct consumer starting trim for The Prius.

    And even within Prius Chat, I don't see a lot of newbies coming in announcing they just bought a Prus I. Most of the time, it's at least a Prius II.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Or you had a tailwind.:) The EPA rules for testing require the tires to have no more than 4000 miles worth of wear on them. They are probably tested with 3950 miles on them.

    Besides that, it is too soon to call in a model meets its EPA by Fuelly. There are only 14 Insight3s on Fuelly, and 9 of them are the Touring with larger wheels.

    Better looking is in the eye of the beholder.
    Both are still cars in a market that wants SUVs. How the Insight lives up to their MPG ratings will give a clue above how well the CR-V hybrid does when it arrives.

    The Prius One is a commercial sales only model. Or it was until the Ioniq arrived, then Toyota allowed its sale to the general public. If you actually want one, you are limited to what you can find on dealers' lots. So it has only been available to individuals since last spring.
     
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  19. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Thanks, that's why I really wasn't comparing the new Insight to a Prius I.
    I'd suspect even if they are technically available to dealers, if they aren't being shipped or stocked in mass, getting one would still be a daunting task, assuming you wanted one.

    If memory serves me right it also appears Prius I has been upgraded. According to the Toyota website, a Prius I now comes with a back-up Camera, Push Button Start and drivers side keyless entry.

    I think 5-6 years ago, those were all reasons to upgrade to a Prius II. The Prius one was fleet vehicle spartan. That seems to of somewhat changed.
     
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Gen 4 Prius One was not even available to the general public until the mod-2017 model year refresh when they added more safety features to most trims (& removed the Eco cargo cover). When I bought my 2017 Two in October 2017 it was the lowest trim offered at that time.
     
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